April 3, 2018 at 12:35Mobio Talks with Natalia Shagarina (Edadil) about product growth, launch of cashback service and partnership with Yandex
As part of the transfer Mobio Talks founder Getloyal Alex Pisarevsky interviewed the Director General of the service "Edadil" Natalia Shagarinoy.
In this issue, we discussed:
- The main drivers of growth in Edil;
- How they launched the new owl cashback service;
- The future of service and market prospects;
- Investments and features of partnership with Yandex;
- New formats of mobile advertising;
- The “Edil” team and the involvement of top management;
- and much more.
Full text decryption can be viewed here. Or read the shortened version under the cut.
About growth and indicators
At a Product Camp performance in May 2017, you talked about how you reached 3.5 million monthly active users. There was a graph in the presentation, where you can see exactly how you grew, how many users bought per month, how many new ones arrived, and the installation rate was also shown. If you extend this schedule, should there be 5 million active users per month in the Edil app now?
5.2 million active users, you guessed it.
Have you continued to grow at the same pace?
Yes. Growth Hacking was more likely due to changes in the product. We invented what gave us food cravings.
Prior to this, performance marketing was the main growth driver, that is, traffic purchase?
The main driver is organic growth, which is 60-65%. It depends on what angle to see what is considered organic. It cannot be said that offline channels, for example, TV, in which we invested this summer, have taken root in full volume.
According to my feelings, either we did not learn how to make TV, or this channel has ceased to be quite effective. But due to technological updates in the product, we will continue to work with performance marketing.
I understand correctly that you did not extend the TV test that you talked about at Product Camp (10 million rubles for accommodation)?
We did not extend. The experiment itself was not so bad. In reality, the results were good. Experience was crucial. But the cost of installation and the cost of an active user, it seems, even with good optimization, will not reach the desired indicators.
But at that moment there will be a grocery explosion. This served as a reason to return to performance marketing and revise the look at it.
About launching a cashback service
By food explosion do you mean the cashback service "Owl"? Did you launch it only in December?
Yes. We tested it as a separate application in August. And they saw unexpected involvement.
The application was very simple. We have launched 2000 users. And users were biased towards those who, it seems, do not need anything at all. The involvement was huge. We stopped the test and began to fully make the application, managed to start before the New Year, that is, during the peak shopping period.
Working on the product, the team united in a single rush. The team consists not only of those guys who make b2c products, but also of those who work with the business, who explain, invent new value for FMCG (Fast Moving Concumer Goods) companies and retailers.
We planned in mid-December to release a product that simultaneously has both users and value. That is, if in Owl we subsidized value ourselves, then in Edil there were already real offers from companies that want to influence their sales. And it worked out. We have made such a round of growth in the product.
The future of your service - when will the buyer come to the store and receive a personal discount?
Yes. But cashbacks themselves can be either personal or non-personal. And, of course, we started with the simple and continue with the more complex. Any personalization, the correct recommendation system, taking into account both the profitability of our client and the joy of our user, will develop over the years.
The first approaches we are doing now. In the coming months, we will be happy to offer a more personalized set of cashbacks, respectively, more profitable. More profitable, because it is not rolled out at all, but only to those who are most likely to take advantage and bring good income.
Why did you decide to run through a separate application?
We decided to check in the fastest way. And it seems to me that we are great fellows that we checked this with a service, and not with a function or collecting applications for the use of such an application. Launch the service for 2000 users, make sure that it works, then do it fully - a practice that you should be proud of.
What's next? What is your next round of growth?
We specialize in regular daily, weekly purchases. Monthly, let’s say so. When a person buys so that it is in the refrigerator and does not end on the shelf, he does not have the same pattern as those who choose, for example, a refrigerator for certain properties.
He needs it to be on time, at a bargain price, with a minimum of effort, with little entertainment, in terms of “I want a banana or raspberry flavor”. There is a certain set that develops into the combinatorics of a person.
And then we must help solve this particular problem - to collect a person a set of his repertoire, which he consumes weekly, to collect all the benefits, all the tools. That is, we need to transfer online all parts of the ineffective offline experience.
Could help him not go shopping, but know about regular discounts? Well done. Could they collect cashbacks so that it does not depend on which store he wants to receive benefits on the goods? Well done. They were able to make coupons for shops that want him to come back. Well done.
We make such a product that brings the personal wishes of the user to what the market can offer now. But since the real world does something once a year that can be included. For example, all kinds of product deliveries are now actively growing. Two years ago, there was almost no choice. And now there are already offers in different segments. This is the next level of convenience that you can think about and talk about.
"Edil" will deliver?
“Edil” will not deliver. But “Edil” seriously sees that the next opportunity to facilitate the choice and task of regular purchases is in delivery. We understand from what current variety of market opportunities the next level of convenience can be made to the user, and we run there the fastest. Because 5 million users have already entrusted us with their shopping. We must take care of them.
When will the purchase of everyday goods go completely online? Or at least 80%.
I believe in 30% in the next three to five years.
The main advantage of the "Edil" service is saving?
The application gives a few things. It saves money and time, and creates the feeling that you are well done.
Yes. It is important. How time saves?
If you open the application store and read reviews, you will see that two factors appear there: “Thank you, you save time and money.” Time is mentioned as often as saving money.
And so you can go and buy the goods without a discount.
Not. So I'll think about where to buy at a discount. There is a boundary to the transition from the case “I do not think about profit” to the case “I think about profit”. I will give an example. We have been driving a car for a long time. But from some point we begin to ride with the navigator.
Until the moment you go with the navigator, you: “I know about where to go home from work. I know about traffic jams. ” But from the moment you understand that you can open the navigator, see traffic jams, take a more optimized route, you are already very nervous when you have a telephone in a car.
With the benefit of about the same. When you understand that you can take into account another layer in your combinatorics, including where the most advantageous offer is now, I won’t go just to buy lip gloss, for example. I’ll think on the beach: “I should wait for the discounts for March 8 at my favorite more expensive cosmetic boutique or to me ...”. That is, I already have this layer.
Good. Suppose there is a family of three. They spend 50 thousand rubles a month on everyday goods and do not look at discounts at all. How much money can they start saving if they start using “Edil”?
thirty%. If you start to maneuver.
How long will it take?
It seems to me that with the help of "Edil" much less. In 20 minutes while you are going on the subway, you can understand which store you will go to and what you will buy.
About investments and features of working with Yandex
You have attracted investments from Yandex. Originally it was 10% of the company?
10% of the company along with loans. This is so now. Just the amount of loans has increased.
I slightly analyzed the graph with Product Camp. For a year and a half, you spent about 90 million rubles on performance marketing?
Grade is rough. Not less.
Accordingly, they continued to spend the next year as well. That is, Yandex invested in the form of some kind of loans?
Yandex and I are old partners. From the point of view of investments, they showed unprecedented power in supporting the project at the earliest stage, then at the middle stage, and now at the scaling stage, when we really see a synergistic effect, which we are likely to beautifully demonstrate in the coming years.
There is a plan, what indicators should you achieve by 2020?
We are creating a tool for the FMCG (Fast-Moving consumer goods) market. They are consumer goods. In order for business to be here, we must have a critical mass, the ability to influence sales and opinion, and give a rather interesting cut on analytics.
We carry many values for the market. But these values have weight only if they have reached a critical mass of millions of users. Therefore, success is described as the ability to influence 20% of households in Russia. 18-20% will be a good bar.
Do you need 15 million active users per month?
Yes.
Is there any revenue?
Now cashback is a transactional model. In this particular model, our revenue is a derivative of the happiness of users. If we brought the user happiness for a certain amount of cashback money, this is undoubtedly an indicator of happiness. That and revenue - is a derivative of this happiness. Therefore, yes, there is revenue. It, together with the happiness of users, lies on the devices.
Are you moving in plan now?
In places - above the plan. When you launch something completely new, you are more likely to get the effect of a self-fulfilling prophecy than a plan.
You talked about the advantages of partnership with Yandex many times. Is there at least one minus?
We are limited by the ability to lure employees from Yandex. This is a significant market restriction.
To lure or hire?
To lure. This is a situation in which I initiate a dialogue. And Yandex really needs a person. This is the biggest minus. And I think that he is really the biggest.
At Edil, you invent new formats for mobile advertising, as you said.
Yes. For customers, no doubt.
Is there a chance that advertising in Edil can be bought through Yandex.Direct?
Nowadays, advertising in Edil can be bought through Yandex.Direct, part of its formats. She brings a significant portion of revenue.
And what is this format?
These are the formats inside. Direct sales are rather special projects. So small, not very custom. We have over 40 customers there. We understand what they need, and we do a lot with our hands. Constantly customizing: “Do you want to land every time on a landing or on a selection of products”?
And so you just scroll down and see below the native blocks of Yandex.Direct. They are available to everyone. We still chose and thought about which supplier to put there. In our case, Yandex won.
That is, the market won?
Yes. There stood both Google and Facebook. Yandex won.
Does Yandex give you traffic?
On the main mobile page of Yandex is our block. We are very proud of him, because he has a very high CTR. This is a very high quality partnership. There rather traffic to our touch-version.
This year’s experiment: we believe in touch as the third platform (touch is the mobile web). Touch - that is, an interface with which users will interact in the same way as with a mobile application.
We have a Yandex search application with a large audience and a mobile “face”. And these are good sources of traffic in touch. We launched it only last year. It is not yet fully functional, has not caught up with the application. But we will gradually catch up.
It seems to me that in a year the MAU touch and the MAU of the mobile application can be added up. And the efficiency in touch conversions will be, according to my research of the best benchmarks, - 15-20%. We are not there yet. But that is the goal.
Read the full transcript of the interview here .
Subscribe to our youtube channel in order not to miss the next releases of Mobio Talks.
And also subscribe to the Telegram channel for product marketing and get high-quality content!
In this issue, we discussed:
- The main drivers of growth in Edil;
- How they launched the new owl cashback service;
- The future of service and market prospects;
- Investments and features of partnership with Yandex;
- New formats of mobile advertising;
- The “Edil” team and the involvement of top management;
- and much more.
Full text decryption can be viewed here. Or read the shortened version under the cut.
About growth and indicators
At a Product Camp performance in May 2017, you talked about how you reached 3.5 million monthly active users. There was a graph in the presentation, where you can see exactly how you grew, how many users bought per month, how many new ones arrived, and the installation rate was also shown. If you extend this schedule, should there be 5 million active users per month in the Edil app now?
5.2 million active users, you guessed it.
Have you continued to grow at the same pace?
Yes. Growth Hacking was more likely due to changes in the product. We invented what gave us food cravings.
Prior to this, performance marketing was the main growth driver, that is, traffic purchase?
The main driver is organic growth, which is 60-65%. It depends on what angle to see what is considered organic. It cannot be said that offline channels, for example, TV, in which we invested this summer, have taken root in full volume.
According to my feelings, either we did not learn how to make TV, or this channel has ceased to be quite effective. But due to technological updates in the product, we will continue to work with performance marketing.
I understand correctly that you did not extend the TV test that you talked about at Product Camp (10 million rubles for accommodation)?
We did not extend. The experiment itself was not so bad. In reality, the results were good. Experience was crucial. But the cost of installation and the cost of an active user, it seems, even with good optimization, will not reach the desired indicators.
But at that moment there will be a grocery explosion. This served as a reason to return to performance marketing and revise the look at it.
About launching a cashback service
By food explosion do you mean the cashback service "Owl"? Did you launch it only in December?
Yes. We tested it as a separate application in August. And they saw unexpected involvement.
The application was very simple. We have launched 2000 users. And users were biased towards those who, it seems, do not need anything at all. The involvement was huge. We stopped the test and began to fully make the application, managed to start before the New Year, that is, during the peak shopping period.
Working on the product, the team united in a single rush. The team consists not only of those guys who make b2c products, but also of those who work with the business, who explain, invent new value for FMCG (Fast Moving Concumer Goods) companies and retailers.
We planned in mid-December to release a product that simultaneously has both users and value. That is, if in Owl we subsidized value ourselves, then in Edil there were already real offers from companies that want to influence their sales. And it worked out. We have made such a round of growth in the product.
The future of your service - when will the buyer come to the store and receive a personal discount?
Yes. But cashbacks themselves can be either personal or non-personal. And, of course, we started with the simple and continue with the more complex. Any personalization, the correct recommendation system, taking into account both the profitability of our client and the joy of our user, will develop over the years.
The first approaches we are doing now. In the coming months, we will be happy to offer a more personalized set of cashbacks, respectively, more profitable. More profitable, because it is not rolled out at all, but only to those who are most likely to take advantage and bring good income.
Why did you decide to run through a separate application?
We decided to check in the fastest way. And it seems to me that we are great fellows that we checked this with a service, and not with a function or collecting applications for the use of such an application. Launch the service for 2000 users, make sure that it works, then do it fully - a practice that you should be proud of.
What's next? What is your next round of growth?
We specialize in regular daily, weekly purchases. Monthly, let’s say so. When a person buys so that it is in the refrigerator and does not end on the shelf, he does not have the same pattern as those who choose, for example, a refrigerator for certain properties.
He needs it to be on time, at a bargain price, with a minimum of effort, with little entertainment, in terms of “I want a banana or raspberry flavor”. There is a certain set that develops into the combinatorics of a person.
And then we must help solve this particular problem - to collect a person a set of his repertoire, which he consumes weekly, to collect all the benefits, all the tools. That is, we need to transfer online all parts of the ineffective offline experience.
Could help him not go shopping, but know about regular discounts? Well done. Could they collect cashbacks so that it does not depend on which store he wants to receive benefits on the goods? Well done. They were able to make coupons for shops that want him to come back. Well done.
We make such a product that brings the personal wishes of the user to what the market can offer now. But since the real world does something once a year that can be included. For example, all kinds of product deliveries are now actively growing. Two years ago, there was almost no choice. And now there are already offers in different segments. This is the next level of convenience that you can think about and talk about.
"Edil" will deliver?
“Edil” will not deliver. But “Edil” seriously sees that the next opportunity to facilitate the choice and task of regular purchases is in delivery. We understand from what current variety of market opportunities the next level of convenience can be made to the user, and we run there the fastest. Because 5 million users have already entrusted us with their shopping. We must take care of them.
When will the purchase of everyday goods go completely online? Or at least 80%.
I believe in 30% in the next three to five years.
The main advantage of the "Edil" service is saving?
The application gives a few things. It saves money and time, and creates the feeling that you are well done.
Yes. It is important. How time saves?
If you open the application store and read reviews, you will see that two factors appear there: “Thank you, you save time and money.” Time is mentioned as often as saving money.
And so you can go and buy the goods without a discount.
Not. So I'll think about where to buy at a discount. There is a boundary to the transition from the case “I do not think about profit” to the case “I think about profit”. I will give an example. We have been driving a car for a long time. But from some point we begin to ride with the navigator.
Until the moment you go with the navigator, you: “I know about where to go home from work. I know about traffic jams. ” But from the moment you understand that you can open the navigator, see traffic jams, take a more optimized route, you are already very nervous when you have a telephone in a car.
With the benefit of about the same. When you understand that you can take into account another layer in your combinatorics, including where the most advantageous offer is now, I won’t go just to buy lip gloss, for example. I’ll think on the beach: “I should wait for the discounts for March 8 at my favorite more expensive cosmetic boutique or to me ...”. That is, I already have this layer.
Good. Suppose there is a family of three. They spend 50 thousand rubles a month on everyday goods and do not look at discounts at all. How much money can they start saving if they start using “Edil”?
thirty%. If you start to maneuver.
How long will it take?
It seems to me that with the help of "Edil" much less. In 20 minutes while you are going on the subway, you can understand which store you will go to and what you will buy.
About investments and features of working with Yandex
You have attracted investments from Yandex. Originally it was 10% of the company?
10% of the company along with loans. This is so now. Just the amount of loans has increased.
I slightly analyzed the graph with Product Camp. For a year and a half, you spent about 90 million rubles on performance marketing?
Grade is rough. Not less.
Accordingly, they continued to spend the next year as well. That is, Yandex invested in the form of some kind of loans?
Yandex and I are old partners. From the point of view of investments, they showed unprecedented power in supporting the project at the earliest stage, then at the middle stage, and now at the scaling stage, when we really see a synergistic effect, which we are likely to beautifully demonstrate in the coming years.
There is a plan, what indicators should you achieve by 2020?
We are creating a tool for the FMCG (Fast-Moving consumer goods) market. They are consumer goods. In order for business to be here, we must have a critical mass, the ability to influence sales and opinion, and give a rather interesting cut on analytics.
We carry many values for the market. But these values have weight only if they have reached a critical mass of millions of users. Therefore, success is described as the ability to influence 20% of households in Russia. 18-20% will be a good bar.
Do you need 15 million active users per month?
Yes.
Is there any revenue?
Now cashback is a transactional model. In this particular model, our revenue is a derivative of the happiness of users. If we brought the user happiness for a certain amount of cashback money, this is undoubtedly an indicator of happiness. That and revenue - is a derivative of this happiness. Therefore, yes, there is revenue. It, together with the happiness of users, lies on the devices.
Are you moving in plan now?
In places - above the plan. When you launch something completely new, you are more likely to get the effect of a self-fulfilling prophecy than a plan.
You talked about the advantages of partnership with Yandex many times. Is there at least one minus?
We are limited by the ability to lure employees from Yandex. This is a significant market restriction.
To lure or hire?
To lure. This is a situation in which I initiate a dialogue. And Yandex really needs a person. This is the biggest minus. And I think that he is really the biggest.
At Edil, you invent new formats for mobile advertising, as you said.
Yes. For customers, no doubt.
Is there a chance that advertising in Edil can be bought through Yandex.Direct?
Nowadays, advertising in Edil can be bought through Yandex.Direct, part of its formats. She brings a significant portion of revenue.
And what is this format?
These are the formats inside. Direct sales are rather special projects. So small, not very custom. We have over 40 customers there. We understand what they need, and we do a lot with our hands. Constantly customizing: “Do you want to land every time on a landing or on a selection of products”?
And so you just scroll down and see below the native blocks of Yandex.Direct. They are available to everyone. We still chose and thought about which supplier to put there. In our case, Yandex won.
That is, the market won?
Yes. There stood both Google and Facebook. Yandex won.
Does Yandex give you traffic?
On the main mobile page of Yandex is our block. We are very proud of him, because he has a very high CTR. This is a very high quality partnership. There rather traffic to our touch-version.
This year’s experiment: we believe in touch as the third platform (touch is the mobile web). Touch - that is, an interface with which users will interact in the same way as with a mobile application.
We have a Yandex search application with a large audience and a mobile “face”. And these are good sources of traffic in touch. We launched it only last year. It is not yet fully functional, has not caught up with the application. But we will gradually catch up.
It seems to me that in a year the MAU touch and the MAU of the mobile application can be added up. And the efficiency in touch conversions will be, according to my research of the best benchmarks, - 15-20%. We are not there yet. But that is the goal.
Read the full transcript of the interview here .
Subscribe to our youtube channel in order not to miss the next releases of Mobio Talks.
And also subscribe to the Telegram channel for product marketing and get high-quality content!