February 3, 2015 at 13:01My experience finding a job as a programmer abroad: UPDATE 2
UPDATE 1
UPDATE 2
I think that many of my experience in finding work as a programmer abroad will be useful. Moreover, it is completely different from the one described in the publication “How IT professionals leave for Germany. Part 1 " .
I must say right away that I am married and have two children of 5 and 11 years old. This I say that the requirements for moving conditions for a family person are higher than without children or without a family at all. For example, it is necessary to take into account the increase in expenses for a minimum of 3 apartments, utilities per 4 people, paid education and its level. Transportation is also important, as every day children need to get to and from school. Another important criterion for choosing a country for relocation is the level of medicine and the environment. And finally, the cost of maintaining a family of 4 people is an order of magnitude higher than for two, and even more so for one. All this sets a rather tight lower salary.
Given all of the above, it may seem that moving abroad with your family is on the verge of unrealistic. But this is not so! And although I will not refute that it is much easier for a bachelor to move around the world, I emphasize that my experience has shown that this simplicity lies solely in the absence of worries inherent in family people (I described them above). Another advantage of bachelors (theoretically) is that they can accept lower salaries than they would like, but with the prospect of growth.
In total, it took me 9 months to find a job. I chose Germany as the destination country, as IT is there at a high level, a huge number of startups, especially in Berlin, a high level of free education and strong medicine. In addition, I more or less knew German.
Mistake number 1 - choose one country and look for work only in it.
As it turned out, there is a huge demand for programmers in the UK as well. I also received offers from Switzerland, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Poland and Hungary. The wider the search range, the greater the chance. Personally, I moved to a country from which I received only one offer, although I did not consider it at all and knew about it only by hearsay. It can even be seen on Google maps only at almost maximum zoom. This is Malta. And life here is beautiful!
A proposal for Malta was made to me by a recruiting agent from London.
Mistake number 2 - to think that you need to look for vacancies directly from the employer.
My experience has shown that working with agents is much more profitable, since they have a lot of offers and their services are free for the applicant. Moreover, they can offer countries that you don’t even think about, and these very strange ones can give you more than you dream. As it happened to me.
Mistake # 3 - imagining yourself as a jack of all trades.
I am a programmer with 6 years experience. I know PHP and JavaScript and a lot of everything related. In addition, behind my back I have 2 major projects and experience a year and a half in the position of CTO. It seems like a cool dude with a cool CV. I decided that I would look for work as Frontend, backend and fullstack developer. But the interviews showed that even though I can do any task and everything will work, and I confirmed it with test tasks, the employer will expect a high level of knowledge from you - so that it flies off your teeth. And I’m just not so strong in this matter and I had to spend about 4 months on bringing my theoretical knowledge to an almost impeccable level. But this was made possible thanks to the choice of a clear specialization - Frontend developer.
I advise you to introduce yourself as a specialist in a clear field and to confirm your knowledge not only with deed, but also with a word!
Mistake number 4 - to think that the successful completion of a technical interview is almost a 100% guarantee.
After about 5 months of finding a job, I reached a level where technical interviews were my pride. But only after conversations with HR managers they politely refused me. In a number of cases, I only later realized what questions I could answer incorrectly. It is worth noting that different companies evaluate the answers to the same questions in different ways, some of them do not ask at all.
So you need to answer questions of a different (non-technical) nature as you really think. Trying to guess what is expected of you is pointless!
There are a number of points to evaluate expenditures, determine the minimum level of salaries, etc. I will write about this if there is interest in this topic.
UPDATE 1
Where to look for work
Since I initially aimed at Germany, I searched for German job sites, I posted my resume wherever I could. Because now I don’t remember all the sites, but most often vacancies came from Monster.de and theItJob.
For the UK there is a version of the site
And on this version of the site you can choose other countries.
Soon they began to write and call me. These were agents. For all the time there were maybe 2 or 3 direct employers. It turned out that British recruiting companies are very active in the German IT market. So I began to receive many offers for Germany from England. Most often, agents work in specific cities, for example: Berlin, Stuttgart, Frankfurt. And I needed Munich and sometimes they redirected me to agents who work in Munich. But since I not only posted a resume, but also sent my resume to specific vacancies in their Munich, I got agents with many offers from this city and its suburbs. But soon I expanded the geography of my search to all of Germany, and even later to all of Europe. And although I am in love with Munich, but I was ready to consider all the cities and the whole of Europe in order to increase my chances.
As for the choice of the country, I want to add that in addition to Germany, in my opinion, it is worth considering Great Britain, Holland, Switzerland and Ireland.
But keep in mind that taxes and rental housing in London, for example, are an order of magnitude higher than in Germany. If you rent an apartment in the suburbs, then this is at least an hour by train.
I have not been to Switzerland, but I suspect that it is also expensive there. But according to the proposals that I had, they assured me that the salary was consistent with the costs at the same standard of living. But all this is to be studied.
Ireland is interesting because one of their Google offices is located there. And the country is taking steps to attract IT companies, benefits for startups, etc. I will not go into details, because I was there in November 2013 and since then there could have been changes, obviously for the better. But Ireland is sad in terms of climate. It is often cloudy and rainy. But my friend lives there for more than 13 years and says he’s used to it already. Although he is considering moving to London or Munich, since after 6 years at Google, he quit to pursue his own project.
I know about Holland that startup culture is also actively developing there.
What do agents ask?
After you send your resume in English to the agents with a link to your LinkedIn account, and preferably with examples of yours when, for example, on GtHub,
they usually ask when they can call to ask a couple of questions. You need to be prepared for a variety of accents - this applies to agents from England. Sometimes it's hard to understand, but you get used to modernity.
A very important issue is the level of desired salary. This is an unexpected question for the unprepared. The agent expects to hear approximate figures, but still less real. But if you have not decided for yourself exactly where you want, then I advise you to take the cost of living in Germany as a guideline. This is approximately 45-50 thousand euros per year before taxes (gross). After payment you will have about 2800-3000 left. Paying taxes includes health insurance. But these are approximate amounts, since taxation in Germany is carried out according to classes that depend on whether you have a wife or a common-law wife, whether she works and whether there are children (if I remember correctly that there are only 6 classes and the tax is highest for a bachelor ) But for such a salary you can live normally even with children. Children are paid an allowance, something in the region of 140-170 euros per month for each.
For the UK, in particular for London, a family programmer should focus on a salary of 50 thousand pounds per year gross.
Of course, in the course of receiving specific proposals, you will be voiced clear amounts and even then you need to finally double-check all expenses already for a specific country and city.
There is another category of expenses - this is the cost of moving. If the company pays for the move, then you're in luck. But if not, then the flight and baggage are at your expense. Another major expense is considered a guarantee for renting an apartment + agent commission (where available). When I found out, in Germany the deposit was for 3 months. + payment of the current month. Also, apartments are often rented unfurnished and without a kitchen. But I found it all on forms or thematic sites and in practice did not check. But you should be prepared for such expenses. I will describe in more detail on the example of Gremania in the next update.
If the agent sees that you know English or German, he begins to offer you vacancies. There you already agree on the time of Skype interviews or phone study calls from employers.
Do I need a diploma?
I am a self-taught programmer. Therefore, I do not have a diploma confirming my knowledge in programming. I do not want to say that no one will ask you for a diploma. I was asked a couple of times, but the lack of a diploma did not affect. For example, one of the companies that required a profile diploma in the job description and asked me about it, invited me to a personal meeting after a technical interview. From my experience, I can say that a diploma was asked very rarely. Everything was decided at interviews, on which, I recall, technical issues were often only half important.
Perhaps this is due to the fact that few people take diplomas from the post-Soviet space seriously in the West.
UPDATE 2
Now about the costs.
First, I’ll talk about the costs of moving (in my example).
The first item of expenditure is rental housing. Before calculating these costs, you need to understand which country you will move to and what rental conditions in this country, because this is the biggest expense item. For example, in Germany apartments are most often rented unfurnished, the maximum that can be there is the built-in kitchen (which means + the cost of buying furniture, pots, spoons, plates and other trifles or transporting your own). In addition, at the conclusion of the lease, a “guarantee payment” is made in the amount of a 3-month rent. This money goes to the deposit of the lessor, as a guarantee that if you spoil something in the apartment, the guarantee payment will go to repair. In fact, landlords are very reluctant to part with this guarantee payment, and try to keep it to themselves in every possible way. But this is a digression. We see, that the cost of renting an apartment is usually composed of: payment for the 1st month + guarantee payment (in my case for 1 month) + broker services. Try to find out in advance what are the conditions for renting an apartment in the country where you are going to go. We found out through local forums. In principle, everything came together. By the way, it is worth considering another moment of seasonality of rental prices. In summer, usually more expensive. In winter - cheaper. Moreover, the price that will be indicated in the lease is unlikely to change throughout the duration of the contract. Consider this moment;) it is better to move in the winter! ) everything came together. By the way, it is worth considering another moment of seasonality of rental prices. In summer, usually more expensive. In winter - cheaper. Moreover, the price that will be indicated in the lease is unlikely to change throughout the duration of the contract. Consider this moment;) it is better to move in the winter! ) everything came together. By the way, it is worth considering another moment of seasonality of rental prices. In summer, usually more expensive. In winter - cheaper. Moreover, the price that will be indicated in the lease is unlikely to change throughout the duration of the contract. Consider this moment;) it is better to move in the winter! )
(my case: 800 + 800 + 400 = 2,000 euros)
It must be borne in mind that rental costs may vary in different countries due to the fact that an advance payment may be charged for more than one month. Also, the commission of the agent is somewhere around 50% and somewhere more.
The second expense item is travel and baggage transportation. We were lucky, and the employer company paid us airline tickets and baggage for the whole family. But if this is not the case in your case, then I recommend immediately finding out the cost of additional baggage from the airline. For example, one extra bag in Lufthansa cost us 70 euros. We had 7 bags, so count ...
(my case: 0)
The third expense item is accommodation until you find an apartment. Here we were lucky again, and the employer company paid us 2 weeks of accommodation in the apartments. For 2 weeks we found an apartment and moved there. But if this does not happen in your case, look in advance for accommodation suitable for you at Bucking. In our experience, it is more convenient to rent apartments, because you can cook for yourself, which is cheaper than eating in cafes and restaurants.
(my case: 0)
Fourth item of expenses
The cost of living and meals until you get the first s / n. It is necessary to take into account the moment that in European countries advances that we are used to do not always pay. Most likely you will receive your first salary after a month of work. And all this month you will have to live for something, eat, get to and from work, etc. Probably, this article is for everyone. The first month we were without children.
(my case: 200 / week = 800 euros)
Fifth item of expenses
School / kindergarten expenses. We have two children, 11 and 5 years old. On the Internet, I managed to find out that a school in Malta starts at the age of 5. Also, through the Internet, we found several schools, reviews of which we liked. Arriving at the place, we went to these schools to get acquainted with the administration and find out about the places. At school, we were given an invoice to pay the registration fee first, and then to pay the first 3 months. Please note that not all schools in Europe are paid. There are also free options. If they suit you, then this expense can not be considered. Kindergartens are almost always paid and almost everywhere for half a day. In Germany, in general, a separate story with kindergartens. If necessary, information can be found on local forums.
(my case: 700 (registration fee for 2 children) +815 = 1515 euros
Sixth expense item:
Language school ... For a child, for a spouse, and maybe for you ... Most likely it will be necessary. Get ready for this in advance. Our daughter went to a language school for 2 months. in front of the main school)
(my case: 800 euros)
It seems that everything related to the FIRST expenses on arrival. I got more than 5,000 euros.
UPDATE 2
I think that many of my experience in finding work as a programmer abroad will be useful. Moreover, it is completely different from the one described in the publication “How IT professionals leave for Germany. Part 1 " .
I must say right away that I am married and have two children of 5 and 11 years old. This I say that the requirements for moving conditions for a family person are higher than without children or without a family at all. For example, it is necessary to take into account the increase in expenses for a minimum of 3 apartments, utilities per 4 people, paid education and its level. Transportation is also important, as every day children need to get to and from school. Another important criterion for choosing a country for relocation is the level of medicine and the environment. And finally, the cost of maintaining a family of 4 people is an order of magnitude higher than for two, and even more so for one. All this sets a rather tight lower salary.
Given all of the above, it may seem that moving abroad with your family is on the verge of unrealistic. But this is not so! And although I will not refute that it is much easier for a bachelor to move around the world, I emphasize that my experience has shown that this simplicity lies solely in the absence of worries inherent in family people (I described them above). Another advantage of bachelors (theoretically) is that they can accept lower salaries than they would like, but with the prospect of growth.
In total, it took me 9 months to find a job. I chose Germany as the destination country, as IT is there at a high level, a huge number of startups, especially in Berlin, a high level of free education and strong medicine. In addition, I more or less knew German.
Mistake number 1 - choose one country and look for work only in it.
As it turned out, there is a huge demand for programmers in the UK as well. I also received offers from Switzerland, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Poland and Hungary. The wider the search range, the greater the chance. Personally, I moved to a country from which I received only one offer, although I did not consider it at all and knew about it only by hearsay. It can even be seen on Google maps only at almost maximum zoom. This is Malta. And life here is beautiful!
A proposal for Malta was made to me by a recruiting agent from London.
Mistake number 2 - to think that you need to look for vacancies directly from the employer.
My experience has shown that working with agents is much more profitable, since they have a lot of offers and their services are free for the applicant. Moreover, they can offer countries that you don’t even think about, and these very strange ones can give you more than you dream. As it happened to me.
Mistake # 3 - imagining yourself as a jack of all trades.
I am a programmer with 6 years experience. I know PHP and JavaScript and a lot of everything related. In addition, behind my back I have 2 major projects and experience a year and a half in the position of CTO. It seems like a cool dude with a cool CV. I decided that I would look for work as Frontend, backend and fullstack developer. But the interviews showed that even though I can do any task and everything will work, and I confirmed it with test tasks, the employer will expect a high level of knowledge from you - so that it flies off your teeth. And I’m just not so strong in this matter and I had to spend about 4 months on bringing my theoretical knowledge to an almost impeccable level. But this was made possible thanks to the choice of a clear specialization - Frontend developer.
I advise you to introduce yourself as a specialist in a clear field and to confirm your knowledge not only with deed, but also with a word!
Mistake number 4 - to think that the successful completion of a technical interview is almost a 100% guarantee.
After about 5 months of finding a job, I reached a level where technical interviews were my pride. But only after conversations with HR managers they politely refused me. In a number of cases, I only later realized what questions I could answer incorrectly. It is worth noting that different companies evaluate the answers to the same questions in different ways, some of them do not ask at all.
So you need to answer questions of a different (non-technical) nature as you really think. Trying to guess what is expected of you is pointless!
There are a number of points to evaluate expenditures, determine the minimum level of salaries, etc. I will write about this if there is interest in this topic.
During the search, I got contacts of agents who often ask me if I know of good programmers who are ready to move to work abroad.
If there are people among you, let me know - I’m connecting you with agents (although you yourself can find them if you want), and there it all depends on you. I can help with advice, but to find a job - it takes 100% of your sincere desire and a lot of self-improvement work. Agents will introduce you to the employers and agree with you the date and time of the interview - and then only you yourself!
UPDATE 1
Where to look for work
Since I initially aimed at Germany, I searched for German job sites, I posted my resume wherever I could. Because now I don’t remember all the sites, but most often vacancies came from Monster.de and theItJob.
For the UK there is a version of the site
And on this version of the site you can choose other countries.
Soon they began to write and call me. These were agents. For all the time there were maybe 2 or 3 direct employers. It turned out that British recruiting companies are very active in the German IT market. So I began to receive many offers for Germany from England. Most often, agents work in specific cities, for example: Berlin, Stuttgart, Frankfurt. And I needed Munich and sometimes they redirected me to agents who work in Munich. But since I not only posted a resume, but also sent my resume to specific vacancies in their Munich, I got agents with many offers from this city and its suburbs. But soon I expanded the geography of my search to all of Germany, and even later to all of Europe. And although I am in love with Munich, but I was ready to consider all the cities and the whole of Europe in order to increase my chances.
As for the choice of the country, I want to add that in addition to Germany, in my opinion, it is worth considering Great Britain, Holland, Switzerland and Ireland.
But keep in mind that taxes and rental housing in London, for example, are an order of magnitude higher than in Germany. If you rent an apartment in the suburbs, then this is at least an hour by train.
I have not been to Switzerland, but I suspect that it is also expensive there. But according to the proposals that I had, they assured me that the salary was consistent with the costs at the same standard of living. But all this is to be studied.
Ireland is interesting because one of their Google offices is located there. And the country is taking steps to attract IT companies, benefits for startups, etc. I will not go into details, because I was there in November 2013 and since then there could have been changes, obviously for the better. But Ireland is sad in terms of climate. It is often cloudy and rainy. But my friend lives there for more than 13 years and says he’s used to it already. Although he is considering moving to London or Munich, since after 6 years at Google, he quit to pursue his own project.
I know about Holland that startup culture is also actively developing there.
What do agents ask?
After you send your resume in English to the agents with a link to your LinkedIn account, and preferably with examples of yours when, for example, on GtHub,
they usually ask when they can call to ask a couple of questions. You need to be prepared for a variety of accents - this applies to agents from England. Sometimes it's hard to understand, but you get used to modernity.
A very important issue is the level of desired salary. This is an unexpected question for the unprepared. The agent expects to hear approximate figures, but still less real. But if you have not decided for yourself exactly where you want, then I advise you to take the cost of living in Germany as a guideline. This is approximately 45-50 thousand euros per year before taxes (gross). After payment you will have about 2800-3000 left. Paying taxes includes health insurance. But these are approximate amounts, since taxation in Germany is carried out according to classes that depend on whether you have a wife or a common-law wife, whether she works and whether there are children (if I remember correctly that there are only 6 classes and the tax is highest for a bachelor ) But for such a salary you can live normally even with children. Children are paid an allowance, something in the region of 140-170 euros per month for each.
For the UK, in particular for London, a family programmer should focus on a salary of 50 thousand pounds per year gross.
Of course, in the course of receiving specific proposals, you will be voiced clear amounts and even then you need to finally double-check all expenses already for a specific country and city.
There is another category of expenses - this is the cost of moving. If the company pays for the move, then you're in luck. But if not, then the flight and baggage are at your expense. Another major expense is considered a guarantee for renting an apartment + agent commission (where available). When I found out, in Germany the deposit was for 3 months. + payment of the current month. Also, apartments are often rented unfurnished and without a kitchen. But I found it all on forms or thematic sites and in practice did not check. But you should be prepared for such expenses. I will describe in more detail on the example of Gremania in the next update.
If the agent sees that you know English or German, he begins to offer you vacancies. There you already agree on the time of Skype interviews or phone study calls from employers.
Do I need a diploma?
I am a self-taught programmer. Therefore, I do not have a diploma confirming my knowledge in programming. I do not want to say that no one will ask you for a diploma. I was asked a couple of times, but the lack of a diploma did not affect. For example, one of the companies that required a profile diploma in the job description and asked me about it, invited me to a personal meeting after a technical interview. From my experience, I can say that a diploma was asked very rarely. Everything was decided at interviews, on which, I recall, technical issues were often only half important.
Perhaps this is due to the fact that few people take diplomas from the post-Soviet space seriously in the West.
UPDATE 2
Now about the costs.
First, I’ll talk about the costs of moving (in my example).
The first item of expenditure is rental housing. Before calculating these costs, you need to understand which country you will move to and what rental conditions in this country, because this is the biggest expense item. For example, in Germany apartments are most often rented unfurnished, the maximum that can be there is the built-in kitchen (which means + the cost of buying furniture, pots, spoons, plates and other trifles or transporting your own). In addition, at the conclusion of the lease, a “guarantee payment” is made in the amount of a 3-month rent. This money goes to the deposit of the lessor, as a guarantee that if you spoil something in the apartment, the guarantee payment will go to repair. In fact, landlords are very reluctant to part with this guarantee payment, and try to keep it to themselves in every possible way. But this is a digression. We see, that the cost of renting an apartment is usually composed of: payment for the 1st month + guarantee payment (in my case for 1 month) + broker services. Try to find out in advance what are the conditions for renting an apartment in the country where you are going to go. We found out through local forums. In principle, everything came together. By the way, it is worth considering another moment of seasonality of rental prices. In summer, usually more expensive. In winter - cheaper. Moreover, the price that will be indicated in the lease is unlikely to change throughout the duration of the contract. Consider this moment;) it is better to move in the winter! ) everything came together. By the way, it is worth considering another moment of seasonality of rental prices. In summer, usually more expensive. In winter - cheaper. Moreover, the price that will be indicated in the lease is unlikely to change throughout the duration of the contract. Consider this moment;) it is better to move in the winter! ) everything came together. By the way, it is worth considering another moment of seasonality of rental prices. In summer, usually more expensive. In winter - cheaper. Moreover, the price that will be indicated in the lease is unlikely to change throughout the duration of the contract. Consider this moment;) it is better to move in the winter! )
(my case: 800 + 800 + 400 = 2,000 euros)
It must be borne in mind that rental costs may vary in different countries due to the fact that an advance payment may be charged for more than one month. Also, the commission of the agent is somewhere around 50% and somewhere more.
The second expense item is travel and baggage transportation. We were lucky, and the employer company paid us airline tickets and baggage for the whole family. But if this is not the case in your case, then I recommend immediately finding out the cost of additional baggage from the airline. For example, one extra bag in Lufthansa cost us 70 euros. We had 7 bags, so count ...
(my case: 0)
The third expense item is accommodation until you find an apartment. Here we were lucky again, and the employer company paid us 2 weeks of accommodation in the apartments. For 2 weeks we found an apartment and moved there. But if this does not happen in your case, look in advance for accommodation suitable for you at Bucking. In our experience, it is more convenient to rent apartments, because you can cook for yourself, which is cheaper than eating in cafes and restaurants.
(my case: 0)
Fourth item of expenses
The cost of living and meals until you get the first s / n. It is necessary to take into account the moment that in European countries advances that we are used to do not always pay. Most likely you will receive your first salary after a month of work. And all this month you will have to live for something, eat, get to and from work, etc. Probably, this article is for everyone. The first month we were without children.
(my case: 200 / week = 800 euros)
Fifth item of expenses
School / kindergarten expenses. We have two children, 11 and 5 years old. On the Internet, I managed to find out that a school in Malta starts at the age of 5. Also, through the Internet, we found several schools, reviews of which we liked. Arriving at the place, we went to these schools to get acquainted with the administration and find out about the places. At school, we were given an invoice to pay the registration fee first, and then to pay the first 3 months. Please note that not all schools in Europe are paid. There are also free options. If they suit you, then this expense can not be considered. Kindergartens are almost always paid and almost everywhere for half a day. In Germany, in general, a separate story with kindergartens. If necessary, information can be found on local forums.
(my case: 700 (registration fee for 2 children) +815 = 1515 euros
Sixth expense item:
Language school ... For a child, for a spouse, and maybe for you ... Most likely it will be necessary. Get ready for this in advance. Our daughter went to a language school for 2 months. in front of the main school)
(my case: 800 euros)
It seems that everything related to the FIRST expenses on arrival. I got more than 5,000 euros.