June 25, 2015 at 17:58Ready-made solutions # 3. Alexander Belov
Away - Alexander Belov
Presenter - Sergey Gorshenin
Dear friends! I am glad to welcome you to the Studio of the Ready Solutions program, and without further ado introduce the guest to our studio: today it’s Alexander Belov, head of the Belov & Partners group of companies. Hello hello
Hello Sergey! Hello friends, colleagues!
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Belov Alexander Alexandrovich was born in 1967 in the city of Snezhinsk, Chelyabinsk region. He studied at the Far Eastern State University. From 1993 to 1996, he assembled the first team, developed and implemented an automated system for 80% of the enterprises of housing and communal services in Vladivostok. In 2001 he moved to Moscow, got a job as a 1C programmer in a large publishing holding. Since 2002, the head of external projects for 1C in the integrator company. From 2005 to the present, he has been the head of the Belov & Partners group of companies.
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Alexander, tell a little about yourself.
I was born and raised in the Urals - in the city of Snezhinsk, Chelyabinsk region. He lived there for 17 years. Then he went to Vladivostok, and entered the Far Eastern State University at the Department of Oceanology. He lived in Vladivostok for the next 17 years of his life. Stage after Vladivostok - moved to Moscow in 2001. Education was received precisely by the “oceanologist engineer”.
I understand: Vladivostok, the ocean, the seas ... But how has oceanology connected you with programming, and, in particular, with 1C programming?
Firstly, why did the Ural guy suddenly go to the ocean, right? Perhaps such a question arose?
And that too, yes.
In life, I am guided by several principles. First of all, I liked the math. During training I participated in olympiads. Secondly, I liked chemistry, also participated in olympiads. I liked to explore. In parallel with the trip, we had in school, so to speak, an elective, a circle of like-minded people: we went on trips, but not just went on hikes, but did some research, participated in various conferences and seminars.
Then there was another passion for music: I liked to sing and play the instruments. Well, I also called travel. Here are 4 main whales. To go to the Physics and Mathematics Physics and Mathematics there is something that I liked, but lacked the part that was related to travel. If you go somewhere separately on travel, then accordingly ... Oceanology has turned out to be such a science where I was able to realize almost all my interests. Firstly, this is the mathematics that we were taught in the volume of the faculty of mathematics at the university.
Seriously.
Secondly, chemistry is in the volume of a chemical faculty: very deep, many, and very interesting. And plus the research part of oceanology is vast. Probably, people now know less about the ocean than about outer space.
Well, yes, he seems to be nearby, but in fact ...
... But in fact, a lot of research. Accordingly, travel, and this, of course, expeditions, and expeditions - this is a small team of 120 people. And these are opportunities for self-development - a certain mode, you can go in for sports, gather in the evenings with like-minded people, play in an ensemble, have parties and dance. In essence, oceanology is a field of activity that has satisfied all my interests.
Well, well, well ...
... how did you move on to programming? (Laughs)
Okay, about programming ... So you graduated from college. What was the first work related to? Did you really begin to travel the way you wanted before entering or while studying at the institute?
I entered in the 84th year, and ended in the 91st. For two years I had a break for service in the armed forces. The 91st year was characterized by the fact that a rather deep crisis began, the first, one might say, crisis, very powerful.
Do you get protection before the coup or after?
I graduated from the university, and the principle of distribution ceased to work, that is, no one wanted to hire anyone, the need for specialists was over. But, however, while I was still studying, we had a chance. One of the first field trips was a very good expedition leader, an academician in the future. After the expedition in which I worked, he met our rector, our head of the department, and said: “An interesting student here was in practice. In the morning I come to the laboratory, it works. After a couple of hours I go out to sunbathe on the deck, he sunbathes there, and after some time I go in after dinner - he works. At some point, before a midday snack, I go out onto the sports deck - he does sports there ”...
That is, all the time before his eyes ...
... ”In the evening I go to the wardroom, and he rehearses with the ensemble there. We went to Singapore, we are going back from Singapore, we are returning to the home port, we work - they arrange a concert on the deck, everyone has fun there. I wish this student to me, ”he said such a phrase,“ after finishing work at the laboratory! ”And to me, the head of the department, when the 91st year happened, says:“ There is no distribution, but you can calmly come and ... ”- said where this academician, Viktor Anatolyevich, works, I still remember him - "go up to him and say, remind him of this phrase." And I went to him and said, and he says: "Yes, of course, I remember that, and I will gladly take you to work." And I started working at the Institute of Marine Technology Problems as an intern researcher. It was the Far Eastern branch of the Academy of Sciences.
And what did you do there?
I was a research intern. When he came to the laboratory, the academician told me: “Write a program,” - he needed a certain program - “and learn English.” Before me, he was able to prepare one student well, and he moved to work in Canada. There may have been such thoughts about me ... When I came to work, I didn’t know which side to approach the computer because there were already PCs, and when I graduated from the university, we still had the EU.
Well, in the 91m there were already 286th.
Well, there were even the 386th here, and in the first expedition in 91 they even bought the 486th car, and in Singapore they gave, in my opinion, 5.5 thousand dollars.
I still remember the announcements of the 90s “I will exchange a personal computer for a one-room apartment in Moscow”.
Yes, there was a moment when personal computers cost 40 thousand - this was a little later, and my salary was 240 rubles ...
It turns out that you, as an intern researcher, began to write a program without knowing anything about it. You can say that you began to explore a field such as programming?
The task was set for me in this way: I need a program that will store the data of those stations that we will process using the device: take temperature, salinity, water density, and this data needs to be stored and then processed. Accordingly, what to do? Yes, you need to master what databases are. We take the book, we understand.
At that time it was probably something like clippers.
I had only two weeks to write a program, thanks to the colleagues who prompted me. I say: “Where does the computer turn on? And what should I do? ”They say to me:“ You know, there is such a software product “Clarion”. This is a classic database, plus there is a certain template that does some system things there quickly, and you only need to think about the logic, how to store the data, how to connect it ... ”They gave directions and told how to develop it. And at that moment we go on an expedition - I already need to take this program on this expedition.
That is, a finished product.
Yes, the finished product. Before the start of laying these stations was about two weeks, and I got into the hands of such a book, there was a reprint before - Richard Bach “Illusions”. The main idea: the master gives the student a book and says: "Read it not from beginning to end, but first you must ask a question in your head, then you open this book, and there will be an answer." And in one breath I read the book - and got excited ... There was no
documentation in Russian, but I studied German at school and at the institute, I studied English a little more, and the documentation in English. With the help of this Clarion-Designer designer, I put this little book with the documentation on my lap, did some things and I had a question what this operator was doing. So as not to study the whole book, I just opened it on any page, read a little, and - into battle ...
With the beginning of your career, is it clear, and then what? As I understand it, you didn’t just take and open that company, and now, the group of companies you are managing now? Probably, there were initial steps - on the one hand towards IT, on the other - towards business.
Well, of course. Firstly, the 91st and 92nd years are the aggravation of difficulties with the Academy of Sciences, the cessation of funding for our institute.
Post-crisis time: orders are over, financing is over, expeditions are over, salaries are not rising, and prices are fast. Around the year 91, there was already a leap 8 times. It was necessary to somehow survive. And I began to earn extra money.
I went to the library in my native institute where I worked, and all the circulars are written on pieces of paper. I suggested they write a program to drive the entire library fund into a computer. In two weeks he wrote, delivered, taught to transfer funds. And everyone began to use it! That is - I took and accidentally automated the library. And they even paid for my work, about one and a half thousand rubles! He essentially received his six-month salary for this program.
The most interesting thing is that this program worked there until almost 2000. So, I began to earn extra money, went into the trade, as many probably did. But I didn’t just go buy-sell, I wrote a program for myself that allowed me to optimize the work of myself as a sales manager, in particular, I wrote out types of documents in terms of 1C, recorded operations that I transferred to someone sales, revenue, processed, attracted 2 more sales managers, began to endow them with work.
In fact, the operation was fixed.
Yes, it will. Thanks to the program, written for myself, I successfully worked. Millions of hovering returned to the company. Now it became clear who, how much, for what.
The speed of information processing and, most importantly, human perception, increased significantly at times ...
Yes, you’re already going to the point, and you have a printout: "You owe us so much." In the “dashing 90s” many worked shamelessly: they took the goods, sold them and “forgot” that they owed money to someone. In '93 there was such a company, the owner and founder of which was also a little scientist, from another institute of the Far Eastern Academy of Sciences. And he managed to rent the building from the housing trust, in fact, at the level of promises: “Yes, I’ll write you a program, you’ll be counting now!” And he brought with him a team from the institute to write the program. What is a housing and utilities program? One side - accruals, and the other - acceptance of the fact of payments.
For a year or even a half, they wrote the part that processes the fact. At the moment when the trust refused the services of a machine-counting station, a year and a half passed, they processed only payments. As a result, over 1.5 years, accounting fell apart in the trust: there is a fact, but they do not know who, how much they owe, there are no charges, because they refused the services of a machine-counting station. And the leader of the trust came to our leader with a "club" - either to expel, or to do. And he said: “Listen, you had friends somewhere in the academy, with whom you worked ...” And then many ran up to some port, some where to program. - "Talk to them, maybe they will write a program for ..."
Here I have an idea: I am interested in this process, this automation, I tell the guys: “Let's quietly write a program, it finances the development, we replace, etc.” They agreed. I gathered a few like-minded people. In the end, I had a working day until 17, at 18 I came to them, where they sat in the fishing port, developed a program, and we wrote somewhere until three or four in the morning ...
You could say it was a kind of subcontract.
We programmed for a month, dividing the blocks among ourselves. As a result, in 4 months we wrote a system, we were able to transfer the trust to both fact and accruals. And we make a decision that this very leader who was engaged in trade was not interested, and he gives the go-ahead - please work, develop. And in the 93rd year we created a company, improved our software product and implemented it in 4 out of 5 large housing and operational trusts in Vladivostok.
Many trusts have become independent due to this, that is, they themselves began to process payments and charges almost online. The accrual has passed - all the information is there. It is always known who owes how much.
Some trusts generally had a phenomenal effect, because people forgot what they owed. They forget to pay and that's it, they get a receipt, and there the amount is huge. Of course, they rushed to pay everything, and housing trusts began to use it very well, became independent, got decent opportunities.
In the 96th year, Vladivostok again began to cut the budget, different political trends, and from the Administration, from above, they again began to impose other methods of calculation, and I realized that we - a company of 5 people - did not compete with these monsters, and began to search to write this, program. Contracted. Portfolio diversification for a commercial organization, a trade organization, a wholesale and retail organization with branches, began to develop a system.
Did you take a row yourself? Or is it still a company?
Company. There was a company, but that was the moment when I left the company.
My question is ripe: usually only newly created companies have a certain take-off period, a period when they take off, and then either fall or fly. Based on your words, I understand that the company has existed for at least three years.
Yes.
And then what happened?
Firstly, it was created with all the mistakes that can be made when creating a business: when you, for example, create a company, and take all like-minded founders. There were 5 of us founders. Of these, I was the youngest. About 10 years behind the next two. First, difficulties, ideas unite, everyone works on enthusiasm, inspiration, involvement, and then, when the product acquires certain features, work begins that requires commitment, that is, you need to maintain it in working condition, answer calls, go to customers.
That is, at the beginning there is a process of creativity, and then - monotony.
And then there are obligations. They are already hoping for you, and you must show the aerobatics: answer on the phone, and go, and communicate firsthand - large programs, large trusts. But in the company ... it turns out that some people begin to forget that finances will end if you are unhappy in the market. I understood that.
And out of the 5 founders, 4 of us decided to “rest," one disappeared altogether for 10 days, I didn’t even take the phone ... And then in the 96th year I said: “You know, guys, it’s clear that there is no inspiration ... but if you don’t want to work, come on, take how much you want from the company, how much you will take out in money, get out of business. Our specifics are such that we either work or ... We don’t have one like abroad: I put money, invested in something, and then you sit there, and everything revolves itself ... ”
Yes, either you work and support the cash flow, or you do not work, and it does not go.
The specificity is that we created a product that is our breadwinner and we need to work on it. And in the current situation at 96m I leave the company. When leaving, I took a couple of computers under my arm ... And from the 96th to the 2000th I had a period of searching. 97 years old, in Vladivostok began to enter into everyday life the Internet through a modem. I worked as an administrator, even stood at the labor exchange. And the invitation came ...
What year was that?
97 more ... Commercial Director for a plastic factory.
Even so?
Even so (Laughs). The situation: you come to the factory, and this is the ruins - Coca-Cola drove out, pulled out all the pipes, almost tear off the wallpaper there, tear off the windows ...
What they could, then they took, in fact.
Yes. There was a former military-industrial complex, a leader in the production of equipment for submarines. The former canteen turned into a smokehouse - a smoked fish, and the plastic workshop became a plastic factory. But the economic activity was carried out in such a way that by the time of my arrival, many years of arrears in wages, many millions in arrears in taxes, in funds ... Products are good, but they cannot produce, because the money does not reach. And it became interesting to me if I could fix everything here. And in '97 I went to work as a commercial director for this semi-factory “candle”, a dream ... (Laughs.)
Small, pocket ...
Pocket. It turned out that the director who worked at this plant organized a serious theft scheme, when literally KAMAZ drove up to a hole in the fence at certain times, loaded finished goods there, which were packed into his garages or sent containers somewhere to Chita, for example, and money then was lost somewhere along the way. Of course, they start a case against him. He managed the property, but after a month, after two, it was all hushed up.
This is where I had to start. And by the 98th year, firstly, again, I could not do without programming - that's when I tried 1C. There was no team, I needed to create something quickly, for myself, to keep records. I needed to calculate materials and salaries.
Is the 98th already 7.5 or 7.7 even? 7.0 for sure ...
7.0 was already accurate, but it was damp. 7.7 I have not even taken. 6 was in full swing. I looked at the 6-ka and realized that I could use it to help me, on my knees, to satisfy the need for a plan to register. I could not write a system without a command in a short time, but to configure 6-ku - I configured it for myself so that I could take it into account. Secondly, I found friends who helped me organize a non-cash transfer, because this account is blocked ...
Do you mean the factory account?
Yes, the factory’s account was blocked, and no operations there were possible.
Well, yes, if it’s the general director, then ...
And I need to pay for raw materials to Kazan, pay people, and so, for example, those who took my products away send me money to the account. I was commercial there, and the general of the chief engineers was appointed. I set up accounting, set up cashless payments, and it remains, in addition to the best buckets and the best basins, to start producing some better products that would give the plant the opportunity to shoot, at least somehow make money. The market of Vladivostok is a port, a fish. And products, the so-called tare boxes - for fish.
That is, these plastic boxes that carry fish ...
In fact, the type of product that needs to be produced was selected, but to do this in plastic, you need to make a mold. We ourselves had machines. The plant had 2 machines that can produce these boxes in volume, but there was no mold, it was only in the drawings. A mold is a rather expensive thing, it is metalworking. This is not in the workshop itself ...
And the mold, most likely, is not on one box?
No, the mold is for one box, because the box is large enough, it is up to two kilograms ...
... plastic.
Yes. 1.76 we had. The machine itself with us could make up to 2 kg of the product, the raw material in plastic. For Vladivostok, this was a competitive advantage, because no one else had such machines in Vladivostok. Accordingly, we are betting on this box, but where to get the mold?
Fortunately, at the same time, at a nearby factory, there was also a rather creative director who managed to somehow with the Japanese in the fall of this military-industrial complex put a Japanese line where you have electronic drawings at the entrance, on the one hand, on the other hand, a 3 ton metal blank is placed, and it goes along the metalworking conveyor, and at the output you get this mold. They say: “Well, let’s save, we’ll make us visible.” In price it is a lot. It turned out that one mold requires about 10 thousand dollars for its manufacture.
How much did you pay back these costs?
First, where did we get the money for this (laughs)?
This is the second question!
He is very closely connected with the first - through how much we paid for. Then I’m on the wave that everything works out for us, that everything develops, we overcome everything, I turned to acquaintances for personal relations (this is the 98th year) and took a dollar loan ...
That is, it was a few months before August ...
... took dollar loan at 2% per month.
24 per annum so. Essential figure.
In a month we made - well, somewhere we stole three tons of blanks and agreed with the plant - in a month we made a mold, part of the money was spent on raw materials and in June we already released products.
Listen, this is a very short release time.
We have already released products, and I was ready to repay the loan - I, it turned out, had two possibilities. And in June I was ready to give a loan in full. He prepared the amount, but at that moment the director fell ill with me, and I was on knives with the chief accountant. There was not a very qualified person in terms of accounting, and she believed that her money settled in my pockets. She took this amount, which I prepared for the repayment of the loan, and I took it for personal contacts - she didn’t go anywhere there at all. But suddenly she grabs her and drags her to a pension fund, concludes with them some sort of separative deal that they will pay off in some parts, for some years ... In general, the amount was claimed. The director left the hospital, I asked ...
... what, how, where is the money?
Yes. How am I now? He says: "Well, come on, month." I say: "Well, okay, come on." And I’m negotiating and extending it for another 1 month. Before August. July ends, I’m ready to give this amount again, and we have a shortage of raw materials and the director, instead of sending people without leave on vacation, takes it and leaves it with the contents, and I sowed this amount again. She left again. I already tell him that this is impossible, because the loan is expensive, secondly, foreign exchange, and thirdly, already on TV something is already all troubled. This is the beginning of August. And when I come ... on the 18th we go to work. Our dollar was 6, it became ...
24.
12 first. The first day he was 12. 12 or 17 immediately, in my opinion. I told him: “Well, now what? How many opportunities there was to return everything. Imagine, you have both products and everything. All this walks, works. ” And then I heard a phrase that forever cooled my enthusiasm in terms of taking loans for personal connections for public purposes that are not dependent on you: "Brewed it yourself and dissipate it."
Well, I naturally went to my creditors to talk. They say: "For us, this is also loan money, that is, we resold you, let's somehow look for a way out of the situation." I had a carte blanche "I made it myself, and dissipate it myself" and yes, I began to dissipate it.
Every day I collected some products there, went to all kinds of customers, collected cash, went on the same day, bought dollars and paid some part, and so for several days in a row, in a row, every day I went for the rest August, to September, I repaid the entire loan amount. I bought the last dollars at 24.5, in my opinion. The next day he made such a technical rollback to 13 rubles, although you can’t buy it already at 13, but she flashed there. After that I was called Soros. Like I collapsed back. But I saved my credit history. Your credit history. Because I gave it in any case, I did not fail. Everything in the factory is fine. I paid off the loan. Since then, in general, I have remembered: not to take out a loan on your own responsibility for the needs of someone else.
Well, yes, work is work, personal is personal.
Yes. It was lucky that the friends whom I addressed were not bandits, but people with whom we could negotiate and cooperate. For them, I did a part-time job - I worked at a factory, and for them I serviced their computer equipment, automated ... And in the 99th year they already ordered automation services from me. They opened a fast food cafe, and I already left the factory because I fulfilled all my obligations there.
Well, yes, after such a story, I think ....
... went to do automation. And since without a team, I chose 7.7 then and in 3 months automated their fast-food cafe, fast food. I connected the ticket office, such things.
We can say that one of the first catering configurations on the seven.
Well, I didn’t open the bike, I looked at what is on the market and took an industry solution.
Have you already been? Well, in principle, yes, then there were already the first ...
Already been. ASTOR and Rarus were together. Then ASTOR left, because they took the line in which the catering was on the basis of trade, while Rarus had it on the basis of accounting.
Rarus yes, there was an accounting.
But they were still together, and I took the one that ASTOR appeared in the future on the basis of trade, on operational accounting. And on its basis he raised the box office and accounting. On 6-ke, however, he also did it in parallel in order to solve the problem quickly, but without connecting to the ticket offices - he simply raised the count. That's why I chose 1C because I was without a team, and it was possible to solve just such a problem on my own ...
Well, yes, we in this last program with Alexey Lustin just discussed this topic, that 1C allowed me to give on my knee in 2 days Something, though not a complete solution, but already working.
Well, yes, that is, it was the choice of a tool in terms of as a tool for rapid development.
And in what year did you move to Moscow?
In 2001 Until this moment, I managed to work on Forex. He worked for about 2 years. From 98 to the 2000th year.
Were there any difficulties? After all, the time difference, and, probably, in relation to work.
At the end of the 99th year, while still in Vladivostok, I received an offer to work as an administrator in an automated banking system.
I then already automated the catering. And then the offer to work as an ABS administrator in a branch of a Moscow bank in Vladivostok. In place of the administrator who left. I joined quite quickly. The only thing - there was Oracle, and 1C only insofar as. In my opinion, I set the salary at 1C. And maybe not even that, the salary was different there. Well, that’s not the point. The bottom line is Oracle. This is a good experience with inquiries, an automated banking system, 50 jobs. A server with workstation resources that does just fine. And, working in this system, I was almost all the time online. Automated part of the work with the head office through all sorts of mail robots ...
And where was their head office ?
In Moscow.
Wait, the lead one in Moscow, but have you been to Vladivostok yet?
I am in Vladivostok. And he was the only technical specialist.
Well, that is, when Moscow was asleep, you worked.
Yes, I was finishing work, they went to work. I rolled all sorts of updates, built patches. It started very early, because it was necessary to check how these patches ended, if something was rolled back suddenly, and ended late enough. Plus I left a side job - in the evenings, after the bank, I went around, looked, so that the box office would not fall, something else somewhere. Well, that is, accompanied where I wrote on 1C. And it was almost online.
And someone from Moscow is knocking on me online, like, how are you as a specialist? I say: "I don’t know, but what?" "Write, send your resume, interesting." I say: “I never wrote a resume, I didn’t particularly look for work somehow ...” Well, I went to Word according to the template ... sent a resume, and they wrote: “Interesting you found criteria in the resume. How would you come to have an interview with us there, in Moscow? ”Where am I, where is Moscow?
Well yes. 7 days by train.
8 days by train to go to Moscow, 9298 km ... and it so happens that, hop, and I have a business trip to Moscow! Well, literally, this is how the stars add up and a business trip to Moscow. Well, okay, I think I'll go, I'll go.
4 interviews were held in this organization. They say: "Oh, we’ll do the staffing now, we really want you to work for us." I quietly returned to Vladivostok, I work, I think, well, played around ... They are there for 4 months - January, February, March, April - they say: “That's it, we made the staffing schedule, come!”
Thus, they invited us to Moscow. Relocation. I heard from one of the comedians such a phrase: "You must go into the water gradually - first a wife, then children, then himself." It is necessary to move to Moscow gradually - first by himself, then by his wife, then by children. (Laughs)
I sold it, so as not to carry it, I set aside the money. I transferred all the products that I automated to colleagues who stayed there for escort. And, accordingly, by the time I left the bank, from the branch, I had already prepared an assistant, who took my place, was completely ready to replace.
And I'm moving to Moscow. And on May 15, 2001 I set foot on the ground, so to speak ... I took with me only the system unit and modem, with the hope that I would buy a monitor here. Such is the decision to move to Moscow. Of course, we also discussed this at the family council, but the option fell out and, probably, we had to use it.
Then I realized that everything was right, that this was not an accident, it didn’t skid, it was precisely the possibility of some other level, because by the time I moved to Vladivostok I had about three jobs at a time. And this in total gave, perhaps, $ 500, while we, while we lived as a family, improved our living conditions, moved, occupied, re-donated, and now at some point it turns out that everything that was earned, everything was spent, and it was impossible to give this busy money ... That is, make ends meet ...
Yes, the difference in income is still felt.
Yes, it turns out, busy day and night. I slept for 6 hours.
At one time there was a forum in 1C, and you, in my opinion, were one of the authors of this forum? Why did he appear? And why did it cease to exist?
The question is, why did it appear? Firstly, I'm not quite an author - the author is still the one who developed it. It was developed by Sergey Belov.
Then not the author, but the ideologist.
Ideologist. Again, along with Sergei Belov. So the stars formed that we met with Sergey Belov in 2003. Until that moment, people were hanging out in Territory 1C, and ...
This is which in the Kuban ...
Yes, this is the Kuban forum Territory 1C.
This was the first forum in which I lit up. And then the moderation policy began to strain. The creators and moderators there are different people, and some kind of this community was destroyed precisely by moderation. And we made our own forum so that with our blackjack ... Our own forum to moderate ourselves. This is in 2003 year. Another idea: so that without any advertising, without any banners.
More to the point, less chatter.
Yes. Sergey made the easiest forum on the Internet. There were no forums on the Internet where there were so few bytes, a title page occupied a kilobyte. So he was quick and easy. And he and I moderated.
Are you not brothers with him, by any chance?
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels ...
Yes, yes, yes.
“Is this husband and wife? No, son, these are four completely different people. ”:) We are namesakes. Although we are four completely different people. I was the owner, that is, I got the piece of iron itself, organized the system part and exploited this system part for my projects.
2003 year - I already began to engage in distributed software projects, began to attract remote specialists, and I already had some kind of teamwork technology. I bought a server and handed over to colocation to host it all. And the forum was created on this resource, that is, I am the owner, Sergey is the creator. He programmed, he was interested in learning this language. He first made it on CGI, then rewrote it on PHP - made a new version of the forum.
For me, this forum was a way of community and searching for those people with whom I later began to work remotely. Once even I began to use this forum as an engine for trying to discuss tasks before giving it to someone for execution. As a tool, it is not very convenient, but there was nothing else so far. And in the end, in 2003-2004, we came to the point of creating a new system for working with remote employees and working on projects with my 1C teamwork technology, just like development.
That is, do I understand correctly that the idea of creating an ideology or concept, correct, if I'm a little mistaken, - RMS, as such, did it appear just then - in 2003-4?
Yes. I began to order more to Sergey. Firstly, he made a forum, he figured out the language. And I say: "Then let's now upgrade the system that I operate to manage tasks." “Are we upgrading?” He says, “it’s easier for me to write.” And then I agreed with him, on a commercial basis, he developed the first, in fact, version of the requirements management system - RMS, and in 2005 we started it, in fact, from February 2005, it worked and until 2010 practically evolved.
Honestly, I didn’t even have time to understand in detail what this concept is. Can you briefly explain what it is? What are the main differences from similar things, because as I understand it, we can use flexible technologies by analogy if we are talking about the present ... But it is clear that in 2004 or 2005, these were things that were far from Russia. ..
There is such a myth in programming that tools or technologies can solve something specific. There is a statement that just 100% of the success of projects in program activities is precisely people. But I don’t bow either way, but I think that people are very important. In technology, people come first. But tools and technology are also an important part. Either your people will work efficiently and allow small efforts to create large projects, implement, or they will interfere with each other. That is, the first is people, the second is tools and the third is a kind of philosophy.
In fact, we can give a certain analogy from physics: either you put them all in a single phase, or in the opposite phase the waves will cancel each other ...
Yes, it doesn’t matter in principle which tool you choose, but there must be certain people. If you have certain people, then without a tool you too will lose. If you have people, you have a tool, and there is no philosophy, ideology, then the result may not be, but not enough.
And now the requirements management system, as it is now, into which system it has developed, is, in fact, a whole complex system. Someone has an exchange, for example, where they bring the developer and the client together. Here on this exchange you will not find large projects. There are some small puzzles and so on. Someone has a system for attracting remote developers. They just take them through some JIRA - well, yes, they manage the tasks there, they know that 10 people have overdue 100 tasks for them.
And as a result, we have a system that is guaranteed to provide the required functionality in the expected time for an acceptable fee, and this is not only a tool. That is, in fact, in a nutshell, this is the main difference.
By the way, here's an interesting point: how do you find remote employees?
The first wave of growth of remote employees is 2005. The source was a forum. And the answer to the previous question, why the forum was bent: from 2005 to 2009-2010, I pulled out practically all the specialists I could through the forum. And either I pulled them out, or they found good places of work through the forum and left, they had no time to write on the forum.
And the trend of forum communication over time has come to the point that people began to value their time, and specialists - good specialists, began to spend less time on forums. And unfortunately, more and more loafers, trolls, all kinds of “talk”, “kick someone” began to remain on the forums ... In this form, the forum was already eating up my time, but I had to moderate it ...
That is, it turns out that the closure of the forum was a conscious decision?
Yes, absolutely.
Well, what about skills? Well, as I understand it, it was probably easier with those people who came to you from the forum, because you had such a certain acceleration distance to see what a person is: it was banal during communication on the forum ask two or three questions, maybe offer some kind of option, some kind of puzzle, see what kind of solution the person will offer. And what skills should a specialist have in order to get to your team now?
Working remotely, independently, is much more difficult than working in an office. This is a specific thing.
By itself.
First, a person should have quality, an increased level of personal motivation - to work when no one forces you. I can’t check it. But if a person comes to work with me, it means that he already has a desire. And I just close my eyes - as further, I do not look.
Over time, I realized such a thing that a person, firstly, should have an increased level of personal motivation, and secondly, he and I should spend little time on communication, but achieve a great understanding. I call this the skills of constructive written communication. And, in fact, we have a very important element in the requirements management system - this is called introductory testing, where I test this only skill. Because in the absence of this skill with a person we can’t communicate and understand each other in any way.
То есть, можно ли сказать, что это один из неких основных принципов?
Constructive written communication is, as it turned out, a rare but indispensable skill for distance work.
This is probably a very difficult thing for most programmers?
Yes. There is a fine line here - either you are a writer, or you are a programmer who writes nothing at all, even the code does not document. Two extremes. Constructive written communication is a very subtle concept, and I work on it every day. When I write and ask questions in writing, I also try to grind it.
Well, this saves time ...
It is a significant time saver, and this is the only moment that allows you to greatly save and achieve success in the main activities of the project.
That is, in fact, when we clean out all this garbage from the text, from speech, it is much easier for us to give the same concepts the same meaning.
Yes. Agree in three sentences. Spend a minute on this and understand.
And not in three paragraphs.
Yes. Or you flip through five pages, and a bunch of details, and you will not understand the essence.
Well, well, what other principles besides this can you name?
Well, that already shows up in the work. If there are constructive written communication skills, then the candidate reads the instructions. If he reads the instruction, performs it without question, it is clear that he has constructive written communication, and as a programmer he manifests himself in work.
Well, programming is easier here.
First: you comply with the deadlines or do not comply. Mandatory or optional. There are people who, yes, write well, write correctly, but the person took it and disappeared on the night “from Friday to Monday”.
What about this? Do you have any tools specifically for remote developers, which allows you to set deadlines, monitor the progress of the task?
This is an organizational method. This is already within the framework of technology ... There is a process of decomposition of requirements.
If I understand correctly, are we moving from the plane of philosophy to the plane of technology?
Yes. The requirement itself undergoes decomposition to such a level that one person can handle it within a reasonable time and for a reasonable fee. That is, if he says that he will make a decision in such a way, hand it over at 15 o’clock tomorrow, he wants 120 minutes to pay - this is, in principle, an adequate decomposition and an adequate assessment of the problem that exists. Accordingly, we do not have such that the employee said that he will hand over the decision at the end of the week, he wants 10 minutes to pay. And why can’t you do these 10 minutes right now, or at least some evening?
Accordingly, the first task is the task of the manager to decompose correctly so that the employee can allocate a continuous period of time, and secondly, this is the adequacy of the employees.
By the way, are the managers physically in Moscow, in the office, or are they also remotely?
The managers who are involved in projects, namely production, are remote employees. Who works where - both in Chelyabinsk, and in Ukraine ...
Good. That is, it turns out that if we are talking about some kind of automation project of something, they do not even go to the place?
Yes.
And then who should? That is - where is the line between programming on TK and programming on some real business model? After all, often, in order to write a good competent TK, you have to boil in the business that you will automate.
The bottom line is that, first: 1C - this is such a tool that allows you to create something ready for the description of TK, while describing the TK. That is, the period is comparable, immersion is comparable. It turns out that our technology uses just this moment as an advantage. Someone will write TK for two months ...
... The result of the analysis of TK led to the conclusion that TK, written over 8 months, describes in detail every smallest detail of a business, but there is no new model.
Yes. Someone will write a statement of work in two months, and we will launch it in 2 months and fix it in the third month already ...
Good. Alexey Lustin and I talked about the fact that they are launching the so-called "cloud configurator" - that is, about their idea and attempt to create some kind of tools for collective development. What tools do you use? Toolkit or chips, or maybe some other variations? After all, the full-time mechanism 1C does not yet represent.
Well, there is, storage, for example, configurations. This is already a step in collective development.
Yes, but I mean that there is no final such full-scale implementation option.
We also do not have aerobatics, but there are three main components: this is a version control system - we use CVS - this is the server part; configurators - this is for every developer; requirements management system is a web-based interface. The version control system and the requirements management system are very closely interconnected. That is, in order to record any configuration change in the version control system, you need to get approval in the requirements management system.
It turns out that the requirements management system has the highest priority?
No, they are connected. If you commit changes, this is reflected in the requirements management system. To fix this, you need to get the approval of the manager to complete the task and to commit changes.
A good idea.
As a result, all moves are recorded. This is one element, a toolkit. And to work with CVS for 1C, we wrote - I ordered - commercial development, a parser that parses my configuration into texts, forms, xml, mxl and so on, that is, completely into a human-readable directory structure: document name, document such and such , form number - these are the words without any difficulties. And the disassembled configuration is stored in the version control system, and at every moment you can get an actual copy of the set of files and assemble them using this parser ...
That is, in fact, the parser is some basis for, say, a designer.
The parser is an intermediary between the version control system and the configurator.
Good. But do not you find that it is very similar to flexible methodologies? After all, the idea is the same ...
Our methodology is essentially flexible. I believe that a flexible methodology is a methodology that allows you to work with the dynamic formation of requirements. That is, I have no restrictions on how many requirements per unit of time can be processed, if we can do them in parallel ...
Flexible formation, dynamic formation of project teams: I can have a person work in this project and calmly leave it. The system itself leaves knowledge, leaves results, and then they can be reused by any other employee. This is a flexible methodology.
As far as I know, you have recently been certified to ISO: 9001.
Yes.
What difficulties did you encounter? And most importantly, why? Indeed, most companies, in principle, successfully exist in this market and operate without certification. That is, whether it was a waste of time, resources and money.
The question is, why? For me, certification is a criterion for how much I am not a retrograde in this sense, how truly I am not mistaken, and the system gives the same result, maybe because I am there, right? I wanted to make sure.
Part of my system is the quality management system - as recognition by a third body, a certification body, recognition that it really meets certain international standards, and, secondly, meets the quality goals that existed in the company itself.
The main difficulty was probably that while we were not puzzled by this issue, the structure of the description of business processes, ideas about how, what, where it works, is practically my head and the heads of those employees who work in the organization. We have a very small turnover, but in order to expand, I need that a person who is in the know-how should quickly plunge into ideology.
That is, do you think that this is a certain contribution, some investment in the future development of the company?
Of course. Yes, this is the future, because I needed a description. I understand how this works, but it's me.
That is, in fact, you tried to keep up with two birds with one stone at once: on the one hand, it seems, yes, we passed certification, and on the other hand, in fact - did we build a methodology?
What is certification? Certification is the pinnacle of a large process. The first process is the development of a quality management system. The second process is the description and implementation of the system, quality elements. The third process is certification. So, the development was going on, in fact, from 2005 to 2013.
All we did, from 2005 to 2013, was to improve the system so that it would give a high-quality result: the required functionality by the expected date for an acceptable fee. The 13-14th years are a description of everything and implementation. And employees ... Their actions have already been described, they are stored in the form of schemes, and this, in essence, is a guide to the action of a new employee.
And what are the next steps, goals, stages in the development of the company?
The certification phase lasted several weeks, while checking for compliance. And this is not the final part. The next stage is the improvement of the system, because every year it is necessary to recertify. Secondly, during the implementation, we found certain missing elements in our technology.
That is, for example, I did not have numerical planning as such - I intuitively planned and intuitively checked some things. When we started to implement a quality management system, we just had to add some elements ... But the main difficulty is that there are no ready-made solutions to this. That is, this was not mainly for objective reasons, because such a specificity of software projects that this process is not so easy to come up with. For example, criteria for evaluating a manager. How to evaluate the work of a leader? We had to figure out how to count it numerically.
Can you share any professional secrets that will help our students to substantially change either their work scheme or even their life?
I can say one thing that there are no secrets. Everything that you see under your feet - you can draw your inspiration as ideas, and the only, perhaps, option - you see an idea, you don’t need to think about its implementation, you need to start implementing it, analyze the results of your work and act, and with technical details I always ready to share. But, perhaps, it will not be a wide audience, but a narrower audience, like the Infostart conference, for example, on the sidelines, please ask specific technical questions, specific questions about secrets, and I will talk about my experience.
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Presenter - Sergey Gorshenin
Dear friends! I am glad to welcome you to the Studio of the Ready Solutions program, and without further ado introduce the guest to our studio: today it’s Alexander Belov, head of the Belov & Partners group of companies. Hello hello
Hello Sergey! Hello friends, colleagues!
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Chronological note
Belov Alexander Alexandrovich was born in 1967 in the city of Snezhinsk, Chelyabinsk region. He studied at the Far Eastern State University. From 1993 to 1996, he assembled the first team, developed and implemented an automated system for 80% of the enterprises of housing and communal services in Vladivostok. In 2001 he moved to Moscow, got a job as a 1C programmer in a large publishing holding. Since 2002, the head of external projects for 1C in the integrator company. From 2005 to the present, he has been the head of the Belov & Partners group of companies.
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From an Oceanologist to IT Schnicks
Alexander, tell a little about yourself.
I was born and raised in the Urals - in the city of Snezhinsk, Chelyabinsk region. He lived there for 17 years. Then he went to Vladivostok, and entered the Far Eastern State University at the Department of Oceanology. He lived in Vladivostok for the next 17 years of his life. Stage after Vladivostok - moved to Moscow in 2001. Education was received precisely by the “oceanologist engineer”.
I understand: Vladivostok, the ocean, the seas ... But how has oceanology connected you with programming, and, in particular, with 1C programming?
Firstly, why did the Ural guy suddenly go to the ocean, right? Perhaps such a question arose?
And that too, yes.
In life, I am guided by several principles. First of all, I liked the math. During training I participated in olympiads. Secondly, I liked chemistry, also participated in olympiads. I liked to explore. In parallel with the trip, we had in school, so to speak, an elective, a circle of like-minded people: we went on trips, but not just went on hikes, but did some research, participated in various conferences and seminars.
Then there was another passion for music: I liked to sing and play the instruments. Well, I also called travel. Here are 4 main whales. To go to the Physics and Mathematics Physics and Mathematics there is something that I liked, but lacked the part that was related to travel. If you go somewhere separately on travel, then accordingly ... Oceanology has turned out to be such a science where I was able to realize almost all my interests. Firstly, this is the mathematics that we were taught in the volume of the faculty of mathematics at the university.
Seriously.
Secondly, chemistry is in the volume of a chemical faculty: very deep, many, and very interesting. And plus the research part of oceanology is vast. Probably, people now know less about the ocean than about outer space.
Well, yes, he seems to be nearby, but in fact ...
... But in fact, a lot of research. Accordingly, travel, and this, of course, expeditions, and expeditions - this is a small team of 120 people. And these are opportunities for self-development - a certain mode, you can go in for sports, gather in the evenings with like-minded people, play in an ensemble, have parties and dance. In essence, oceanology is a field of activity that has satisfied all my interests.
Well, well, well ...
... how did you move on to programming? (Laughs)
Okay, about programming ... So you graduated from college. What was the first work related to? Did you really begin to travel the way you wanted before entering or while studying at the institute?
I entered in the 84th year, and ended in the 91st. For two years I had a break for service in the armed forces. The 91st year was characterized by the fact that a rather deep crisis began, the first, one might say, crisis, very powerful.
About the first labor feats
Do you get protection before the coup or after?
I graduated from the university, and the principle of distribution ceased to work, that is, no one wanted to hire anyone, the need for specialists was over. But, however, while I was still studying, we had a chance. One of the first field trips was a very good expedition leader, an academician in the future. After the expedition in which I worked, he met our rector, our head of the department, and said: “An interesting student here was in practice. In the morning I come to the laboratory, it works. After a couple of hours I go out to sunbathe on the deck, he sunbathes there, and after some time I go in after dinner - he works. At some point, before a midday snack, I go out onto the sports deck - he does sports there ”...
That is, all the time before his eyes ...
... ”In the evening I go to the wardroom, and he rehearses with the ensemble there. We went to Singapore, we are going back from Singapore, we are returning to the home port, we work - they arrange a concert on the deck, everyone has fun there. I wish this student to me, ”he said such a phrase,“ after finishing work at the laboratory! ”And to me, the head of the department, when the 91st year happened, says:“ There is no distribution, but you can calmly come and ... ”- said where this academician, Viktor Anatolyevich, works, I still remember him - "go up to him and say, remind him of this phrase." And I went to him and said, and he says: "Yes, of course, I remember that, and I will gladly take you to work." And I started working at the Institute of Marine Technology Problems as an intern researcher. It was the Far Eastern branch of the Academy of Sciences.
And what did you do there?
I was a research intern. When he came to the laboratory, the academician told me: “Write a program,” - he needed a certain program - “and learn English.” Before me, he was able to prepare one student well, and he moved to work in Canada. There may have been such thoughts about me ... When I came to work, I didn’t know which side to approach the computer because there were already PCs, and when I graduated from the university, we still had the EU.
“I’ll exchange a one-room apartment in Moscow for a personal computer”
Well, in the 91m there were already 286th.
Well, there were even the 386th here, and in the first expedition in 91 they even bought the 486th car, and in Singapore they gave, in my opinion, 5.5 thousand dollars.
I still remember the announcements of the 90s “I will exchange a personal computer for a one-room apartment in Moscow”.
Yes, there was a moment when personal computers cost 40 thousand - this was a little later, and my salary was 240 rubles ...
It turns out that you, as an intern researcher, began to write a program without knowing anything about it. You can say that you began to explore a field such as programming?
The task was set for me in this way: I need a program that will store the data of those stations that we will process using the device: take temperature, salinity, water density, and this data needs to be stored and then processed. Accordingly, what to do? Yes, you need to master what databases are. We take the book, we understand.
At that time it was probably something like clippers.
I had only two weeks to write a program, thanks to the colleagues who prompted me. I say: “Where does the computer turn on? And what should I do? ”They say to me:“ You know, there is such a software product “Clarion”. This is a classic database, plus there is a certain template that does some system things there quickly, and you only need to think about the logic, how to store the data, how to connect it ... ”They gave directions and told how to develop it. And at that moment we go on an expedition - I already need to take this program on this expedition.
That is, a finished product.
About inspiration
Yes, the finished product. Before the start of laying these stations was about two weeks, and I got into the hands of such a book, there was a reprint before - Richard Bach “Illusions”. The main idea: the master gives the student a book and says: "Read it not from beginning to end, but first you must ask a question in your head, then you open this book, and there will be an answer." And in one breath I read the book - and got excited ... There was no
documentation in Russian, but I studied German at school and at the institute, I studied English a little more, and the documentation in English. With the help of this Clarion-Designer designer, I put this little book with the documentation on my lap, did some things and I had a question what this operator was doing. So as not to study the whole book, I just opened it on any page, read a little, and - into battle ...
With the beginning of your career, is it clear, and then what? As I understand it, you didn’t just take and open that company, and now, the group of companies you are managing now? Probably, there were initial steps - on the one hand towards IT, on the other - towards business.
Well, of course. Firstly, the 91st and 92nd years are the aggravation of difficulties with the Academy of Sciences, the cessation of funding for our institute.
Post-crisis time: orders are over, financing is over, expeditions are over, salaries are not rising, and prices are fast. Around the year 91, there was already a leap 8 times. It was necessary to somehow survive. And I began to earn extra money.
I went to the library in my native institute where I worked, and all the circulars are written on pieces of paper. I suggested they write a program to drive the entire library fund into a computer. In two weeks he wrote, delivered, taught to transfer funds. And everyone began to use it! That is - I took and accidentally automated the library. And they even paid for my work, about one and a half thousand rubles! He essentially received his six-month salary for this program.
The most interesting thing is that this program worked there until almost 2000. So, I began to earn extra money, went into the trade, as many probably did. But I didn’t just go buy-sell, I wrote a program for myself that allowed me to optimize the work of myself as a sales manager, in particular, I wrote out types of documents in terms of 1C, recorded operations that I transferred to someone sales, revenue, processed, attracted 2 more sales managers, began to endow them with work.
“I HAVE TAKEN AND UNAUTHERNLY SO AUTOMATED THE LIBRARY”
In fact, the operation was fixed.
About the return of millions
Yes, it will. Thanks to the program, written for myself, I successfully worked. Millions of hovering returned to the company. Now it became clear who, how much, for what.
The speed of information processing and, most importantly, human perception, increased significantly at times ...
Yes, you’re already going to the point, and you have a printout: "You owe us so much." In the “dashing 90s” many worked shamelessly: they took the goods, sold them and “forgot” that they owed money to someone. In '93 there was such a company, the owner and founder of which was also a little scientist, from another institute of the Far Eastern Academy of Sciences. And he managed to rent the building from the housing trust, in fact, at the level of promises: “Yes, I’ll write you a program, you’ll be counting now!” And he brought with him a team from the institute to write the program. What is a housing and utilities program? One side - accruals, and the other - acceptance of the fact of payments.
For a year or even a half, they wrote the part that processes the fact. At the moment when the trust refused the services of a machine-counting station, a year and a half passed, they processed only payments. As a result, over 1.5 years, accounting fell apart in the trust: there is a fact, but they do not know who, how much they owe, there are no charges, because they refused the services of a machine-counting station. And the leader of the trust came to our leader with a "club" - either to expel, or to do. And he said: “Listen, you had friends somewhere in the academy, with whom you worked ...” And then many ran up to some port, some where to program. - "Talk to them, maybe they will write a program for ..."
Here I have an idea: I am interested in this process, this automation, I tell the guys: “Let's quietly write a program, it finances the development, we replace, etc.” They agreed. I gathered a few like-minded people. In the end, I had a working day until 17, at 18 I came to them, where they sat in the fishing port, developed a program, and we wrote somewhere until three or four in the morning ...
You could say it was a kind of subcontract.
We programmed for a month, dividing the blocks among ourselves. As a result, in 4 months we wrote a system, we were able to transfer the trust to both fact and accruals. And we make a decision that this very leader who was engaged in trade was not interested, and he gives the go-ahead - please work, develop. And in the 93rd year we created a company, improved our software product and implemented it in 4 out of 5 large housing and operational trusts in Vladivostok.
Many trusts have become independent due to this, that is, they themselves began to process payments and charges almost online. The accrual has passed - all the information is there. It is always known who owes how much.
Some trusts generally had a phenomenal effect, because people forgot what they owed. They forget to pay and that's it, they get a receipt, and there the amount is huge. Of course, they rushed to pay everything, and housing trusts began to use it very well, became independent, got decent opportunities.
In the 96th year, Vladivostok again began to cut the budget, different political trends, and from the Administration, from above, they again began to impose other methods of calculation, and I realized that we - a company of 5 people - did not compete with these monsters, and began to search to write this, program. Contracted. Portfolio diversification for a commercial organization, a trade organization, a wholesale and retail organization with branches, began to develop a system.
Did you take a row yourself? Or is it still a company?
Company. There was a company, but that was the moment when I left the company.
My question is ripe: usually only newly created companies have a certain take-off period, a period when they take off, and then either fall or fly. Based on your words, I understand that the company has existed for at least three years.
Yes.
About creating business errors
And then what happened?
Firstly, it was created with all the mistakes that can be made when creating a business: when you, for example, create a company, and take all like-minded founders. There were 5 of us founders. Of these, I was the youngest. About 10 years behind the next two. First, difficulties, ideas unite, everyone works on enthusiasm, inspiration, involvement, and then, when the product acquires certain features, work begins that requires commitment, that is, you need to maintain it in working condition, answer calls, go to customers.
That is, at the beginning there is a process of creativity, and then - monotony.
And then there are obligations. They are already hoping for you, and you must show the aerobatics: answer on the phone, and go, and communicate firsthand - large programs, large trusts. But in the company ... it turns out that some people begin to forget that finances will end if you are unhappy in the market. I understood that.
And out of the 5 founders, 4 of us decided to “rest," one disappeared altogether for 10 days, I didn’t even take the phone ... And then in the 96th year I said: “You know, guys, it’s clear that there is no inspiration ... but if you don’t want to work, come on, take how much you want from the company, how much you will take out in money, get out of business. Our specifics are such that we either work or ... We don’t have one like abroad: I put money, invested in something, and then you sit there, and everything revolves itself ... ”
“WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING ABROAD: I PUT MONEY, INVESTED IN ANYTHING AND BETWEEN SIT, AND EVERYTHING IS TURNING UPON”
Yes, either you work and support the cash flow, or you do not work, and it does not go.
The specificity is that we created a product that is our breadwinner and we need to work on it. And in the current situation at 96m I leave the company. When leaving, I took a couple of computers under my arm ... And from the 96th to the 2000th I had a period of searching. 97 years old, in Vladivostok began to enter into everyday life the Internet through a modem. I worked as an administrator, even stood at the labor exchange. And the invitation came ...
What year was that?
Coca-Cola left, plastic remained
97 more ... Commercial Director for a plastic factory.
Even so?
Even so (Laughs). The situation: you come to the factory, and this is the ruins - Coca-Cola drove out, pulled out all the pipes, almost tear off the wallpaper there, tear off the windows ...
What they could, then they took, in fact.
Yes. There was a former military-industrial complex, a leader in the production of equipment for submarines. The former canteen turned into a smokehouse - a smoked fish, and the plastic workshop became a plastic factory. But the economic activity was carried out in such a way that by the time of my arrival, many years of arrears in wages, many millions in arrears in taxes, in funds ... Products are good, but they cannot produce, because the money does not reach. And it became interesting to me if I could fix everything here. And in '97 I went to work as a commercial director for this semi-factory “candle”, a dream ... (Laughs.)
Small, pocket ...
Pocket. It turned out that the director who worked at this plant organized a serious theft scheme, when literally KAMAZ drove up to a hole in the fence at certain times, loaded finished goods there, which were packed into his garages or sent containers somewhere to Chita, for example, and money then was lost somewhere along the way. Of course, they start a case against him. He managed the property, but after a month, after two, it was all hushed up.
This is where I had to start. And by the 98th year, firstly, again, I could not do without programming - that's when I tried 1C. There was no team, I needed to create something quickly, for myself, to keep records. I needed to calculate materials and salaries.
Is the 98th already 7.5 or 7.7 even? 7.0 for sure ...
7.0 was already accurate, but it was damp. 7.7 I have not even taken. 6 was in full swing. I looked at the 6-ka and realized that I could use it to help me, on my knees, to satisfy the need for a plan to register. I could not write a system without a command in a short time, but to configure 6-ku - I configured it for myself so that I could take it into account. Secondly, I found friends who helped me organize a non-cash transfer, because this account is blocked ...
Do you mean the factory account?
Yes, the factory’s account was blocked, and no operations there were possible.
Well, yes, if it’s the general director, then ...
And I need to pay for raw materials to Kazan, pay people, and so, for example, those who took my products away send me money to the account. I was commercial there, and the general of the chief engineers was appointed. I set up accounting, set up cashless payments, and it remains, in addition to the best buckets and the best basins, to start producing some better products that would give the plant the opportunity to shoot, at least somehow make money. The market of Vladivostok is a port, a fish. And products, the so-called tare boxes - for fish.
That is, these plastic boxes that carry fish ...
In fact, the type of product that needs to be produced was selected, but to do this in plastic, you need to make a mold. We ourselves had machines. The plant had 2 machines that can produce these boxes in volume, but there was no mold, it was only in the drawings. A mold is a rather expensive thing, it is metalworking. This is not in the workshop itself ...
And the mold, most likely, is not on one box?
No, the mold is for one box, because the box is large enough, it is up to two kilograms ...
... plastic.
Yes. 1.76 we had. The machine itself with us could make up to 2 kg of the product, the raw material in plastic. For Vladivostok, this was a competitive advantage, because no one else had such machines in Vladivostok. Accordingly, we are betting on this box, but where to get the mold?
Fortunately, at the same time, at a nearby factory, there was also a rather creative director who managed to somehow with the Japanese in the fall of this military-industrial complex put a Japanese line where you have electronic drawings at the entrance, on the one hand, on the other hand, a 3 ton metal blank is placed, and it goes along the metalworking conveyor, and at the output you get this mold. They say: “Well, let’s save, we’ll make us visible.” In price it is a lot. It turned out that one mold requires about 10 thousand dollars for its manufacture.
How much did you pay back these costs?
First, where did we get the money for this (laughs)?
This is the second question!
About 90x Dollar Loan
He is very closely connected with the first - through how much we paid for. Then I’m on the wave that everything works out for us, that everything develops, we overcome everything, I turned to acquaintances for personal relations (this is the 98th year) and took a dollar loan ...
That is, it was a few months before August ...
... took dollar loan at 2% per month.
24 per annum so. Essential figure.
In a month we made - well, somewhere we stole three tons of blanks and agreed with the plant - in a month we made a mold, part of the money was spent on raw materials and in June we already released products.
Listen, this is a very short release time.
We have already released products, and I was ready to repay the loan - I, it turned out, had two possibilities. And in June I was ready to give a loan in full. He prepared the amount, but at that moment the director fell ill with me, and I was on knives with the chief accountant. There was not a very qualified person in terms of accounting, and she believed that her money settled in my pockets. She took this amount, which I prepared for the repayment of the loan, and I took it for personal contacts - she didn’t go anywhere there at all. But suddenly she grabs her and drags her to a pension fund, concludes with them some sort of separative deal that they will pay off in some parts, for some years ... In general, the amount was claimed. The director left the hospital, I asked ...
... what, how, where is the money?
Yes. How am I now? He says: "Well, come on, month." I say: "Well, okay, come on." And I’m negotiating and extending it for another 1 month. Before August. July ends, I’m ready to give this amount again, and we have a shortage of raw materials and the director, instead of sending people without leave on vacation, takes it and leaves it with the contents, and I sowed this amount again. She left again. I already tell him that this is impossible, because the loan is expensive, secondly, foreign exchange, and thirdly, already on TV something is already all troubled. This is the beginning of August. And when I come ... on the 18th we go to work. Our dollar was 6, it became ...
24.
12 first. The first day he was 12. 12 or 17 immediately, in my opinion. I told him: “Well, now what? How many opportunities there was to return everything. Imagine, you have both products and everything. All this walks, works. ” And then I heard a phrase that forever cooled my enthusiasm in terms of taking loans for personal connections for public purposes that are not dependent on you: "Brewed it yourself and dissipate it."
Well, I naturally went to my creditors to talk. They say: "For us, this is also loan money, that is, we resold you, let's somehow look for a way out of the situation." I had a carte blanche "I made it myself, and dissipate it myself" and yes, I began to dissipate it.
Every day I collected some products there, went to all kinds of customers, collected cash, went on the same day, bought dollars and paid some part, and so for several days in a row, in a row, every day I went for the rest August, to September, I repaid the entire loan amount. I bought the last dollars at 24.5, in my opinion. The next day he made such a technical rollback to 13 rubles, although you can’t buy it already at 13, but she flashed there. After that I was called Soros. Like I collapsed back. But I saved my credit history. Your credit history. Because I gave it in any case, I did not fail. Everything in the factory is fine. I paid off the loan. Since then, in general, I have remembered: not to take out a loan on your own responsibility for the needs of someone else.
“I WAS CALLED WITH SOROS: I DROPED THE CURRENCY BACK BACK”
Well, yes, work is work, personal is personal.
Yes. It was lucky that the friends whom I addressed were not bandits, but people with whom we could negotiate and cooperate. For them, I did a part-time job - I worked at a factory, and for them I serviced their computer equipment, automated ... And in the 99th year they already ordered automation services from me. They opened a fast food cafe, and I already left the factory because I fulfilled all my obligations there.
Accounting automation as a vocation
Well, yes, after such a story, I think ....
... went to do automation. And since without a team, I chose 7.7 then and in 3 months automated their fast-food cafe, fast food. I connected the ticket office, such things.
We can say that one of the first catering configurations on the seven.
Well, I didn’t open the bike, I looked at what is on the market and took an industry solution.
Have you already been? Well, in principle, yes, then there were already the first ...
Already been. ASTOR and Rarus were together. Then ASTOR left, because they took the line in which the catering was on the basis of trade, while Rarus had it on the basis of accounting.
Rarus yes, there was an accounting.
But they were still together, and I took the one that ASTOR appeared in the future on the basis of trade, on operational accounting. And on its basis he raised the box office and accounting. On 6-ke, however, he also did it in parallel in order to solve the problem quickly, but without connecting to the ticket offices - he simply raised the count. That's why I chose 1C because I was without a team, and it was possible to solve just such a problem on my own ...
Well, yes, we in this last program with Alexey Lustin just discussed this topic, that 1C allowed me to give on my knee in 2 days Something, though not a complete solution, but already working.
Well, yes, that is, it was the choice of a tool in terms of as a tool for rapid development.
From Vladivostok to Moscow
And in what year did you move to Moscow?
In 2001 Until this moment, I managed to work on Forex. He worked for about 2 years. From 98 to the 2000th year.
Were there any difficulties? After all, the time difference, and, probably, in relation to work.
At the end of the 99th year, while still in Vladivostok, I received an offer to work as an administrator in an automated banking system.
I then already automated the catering. And then the offer to work as an ABS administrator in a branch of a Moscow bank in Vladivostok. In place of the administrator who left. I joined quite quickly. The only thing - there was Oracle, and 1C only insofar as. In my opinion, I set the salary at 1C. And maybe not even that, the salary was different there. Well, that’s not the point. The bottom line is Oracle. This is a good experience with inquiries, an automated banking system, 50 jobs. A server with workstation resources that does just fine. And, working in this system, I was almost all the time online. Automated part of the work with the head office through all sorts of mail robots ...
And where was their head office ?
In Moscow.
Wait, the lead one in Moscow, but have you been to Vladivostok yet?
I am in Vladivostok. And he was the only technical specialist.
Well, that is, when Moscow was asleep, you worked.
Yes, I was finishing work, they went to work. I rolled all sorts of updates, built patches. It started very early, because it was necessary to check how these patches ended, if something was rolled back suddenly, and ended late enough. Plus I left a side job - in the evenings, after the bank, I went around, looked, so that the box office would not fall, something else somewhere. Well, that is, accompanied where I wrote on 1C. And it was almost online.
And someone from Moscow is knocking on me online, like, how are you as a specialist? I say: "I don’t know, but what?" "Write, send your resume, interesting." I say: “I never wrote a resume, I didn’t particularly look for work somehow ...” Well, I went to Word according to the template ... sent a resume, and they wrote: “Interesting you found criteria in the resume. How would you come to have an interview with us there, in Moscow? ”Where am I, where is Moscow?
Well yes. 7 days by train.
“One must go into the water gradually - first a wife, then children, then himself”
8 days by train to go to Moscow, 9298 km ... and it so happens that, hop, and I have a business trip to Moscow! Well, literally, this is how the stars add up and a business trip to Moscow. Well, okay, I think I'll go, I'll go.
4 interviews were held in this organization. They say: "Oh, we’ll do the staffing now, we really want you to work for us." I quietly returned to Vladivostok, I work, I think, well, played around ... They are there for 4 months - January, February, March, April - they say: “That's it, we made the staffing schedule, come!”
Thus, they invited us to Moscow. Relocation. I heard from one of the comedians such a phrase: "You must go into the water gradually - first a wife, then children, then himself." It is necessary to move to Moscow gradually - first by himself, then by his wife, then by children. (Laughs)
I sold it, so as not to carry it, I set aside the money. I transferred all the products that I automated to colleagues who stayed there for escort. And, accordingly, by the time I left the bank, from the branch, I had already prepared an assistant, who took my place, was completely ready to replace.
And I'm moving to Moscow. And on May 15, 2001 I set foot on the ground, so to speak ... I took with me only the system unit and modem, with the hope that I would buy a monitor here. Such is the decision to move to Moscow. Of course, we also discussed this at the family council, but the option fell out and, probably, we had to use it.
Then I realized that everything was right, that this was not an accident, it didn’t skid, it was precisely the possibility of some other level, because by the time I moved to Vladivostok I had about three jobs at a time. And this in total gave, perhaps, $ 500, while we, while we lived as a family, improved our living conditions, moved, occupied, re-donated, and now at some point it turns out that everything that was earned, everything was spent, and it was impossible to give this busy money ... That is, make ends meet ...
“MOSCOW NEEDS TO MOVE GRADUALLY, FIRST ITSELF, BECAUSE WIFE AND CHILDREN”
Yes, the difference in income is still felt.
Yes, it turns out, busy day and night. I slept for 6 hours.
At one time there was a forum in 1C, and you, in my opinion, were one of the authors of this forum? Why did he appear? And why did it cease to exist?
Alexander Belov and Sergey Belov are brothers?
The question is, why did it appear? Firstly, I'm not quite an author - the author is still the one who developed it. It was developed by Sergey Belov.
Then not the author, but the ideologist.
Ideologist. Again, along with Sergei Belov. So the stars formed that we met with Sergey Belov in 2003. Until that moment, people were hanging out in Territory 1C, and ...
This is which in the Kuban ...
Yes, this is the Kuban forum Territory 1C.
This was the first forum in which I lit up. And then the moderation policy began to strain. The creators and moderators there are different people, and some kind of this community was destroyed precisely by moderation. And we made our own forum so that with our blackjack ... Our own forum to moderate ourselves. This is in 2003 year. Another idea: so that without any advertising, without any banners.
More to the point, less chatter.
Yes. Sergey made the easiest forum on the Internet. There were no forums on the Internet where there were so few bytes, a title page occupied a kilobyte. So he was quick and easy. And he and I moderated.
Are you not brothers with him, by any chance?
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels ...
Yes, yes, yes.
“Is this husband and wife? No, son, these are four completely different people. ”:) We are namesakes. Although we are four completely different people. I was the owner, that is, I got the piece of iron itself, organized the system part and exploited this system part for my projects.
2003 year - I already began to engage in distributed software projects, began to attract remote specialists, and I already had some kind of teamwork technology. I bought a server and handed over to colocation to host it all. And the forum was created on this resource, that is, I am the owner, Sergey is the creator. He programmed, he was interested in learning this language. He first made it on CGI, then rewrote it on PHP - made a new version of the forum.
For me, this forum was a way of community and searching for those people with whom I later began to work remotely. Once even I began to use this forum as an engine for trying to discuss tasks before giving it to someone for execution. As a tool, it is not very convenient, but there was nothing else so far. And in the end, in 2003-2004, we came to the point of creating a new system for working with remote employees and working on projects with my 1C teamwork technology, just like development.
About the first RMS
That is, do I understand correctly that the idea of creating an ideology or concept, correct, if I'm a little mistaken, - RMS, as such, did it appear just then - in 2003-4?
Yes. I began to order more to Sergey. Firstly, he made a forum, he figured out the language. And I say: "Then let's now upgrade the system that I operate to manage tasks." “Are we upgrading?” He says, “it’s easier for me to write.” And then I agreed with him, on a commercial basis, he developed the first, in fact, version of the requirements management system - RMS, and in 2005 we started it, in fact, from February 2005, it worked and until 2010 practically evolved.
Honestly, I didn’t even have time to understand in detail what this concept is. Can you briefly explain what it is? What are the main differences from similar things, because as I understand it, we can use flexible technologies by analogy if we are talking about the present ... But it is clear that in 2004 or 2005, these were things that were far from Russia. ..
There is such a myth in programming that tools or technologies can solve something specific. There is a statement that just 100% of the success of projects in program activities is precisely people. But I don’t bow either way, but I think that people are very important. In technology, people come first. But tools and technology are also an important part. Either your people will work efficiently and allow small efforts to create large projects, implement, or they will interfere with each other. That is, the first is people, the second is tools and the third is a kind of philosophy.
“100% SUCCESS IS EXACTLY PEOPLE”
In fact, we can give a certain analogy from physics: either you put them all in a single phase, or in the opposite phase the waves will cancel each other ...
Yes, it doesn’t matter in principle which tool you choose, but there must be certain people. If you have certain people, then without a tool you too will lose. If you have people, you have a tool, and there is no philosophy, ideology, then the result may not be, but not enough.
And now the requirements management system, as it is now, into which system it has developed, is, in fact, a whole complex system. Someone has an exchange, for example, where they bring the developer and the client together. Here on this exchange you will not find large projects. There are some small puzzles and so on. Someone has a system for attracting remote developers. They just take them through some JIRA - well, yes, they manage the tasks there, they know that 10 people have overdue 100 tasks for them.
And as a result, we have a system that is guaranteed to provide the required functionality in the expected time for an acceptable fee, and this is not only a tool. That is, in fact, in a nutshell, this is the main difference.
“REQUIRED RESULTS, EXPECTED TERMS, FOR ACCEPTABLE FEE”
About remote employees
By the way, here's an interesting point: how do you find remote employees?
The first wave of growth of remote employees is 2005. The source was a forum. And the answer to the previous question, why the forum was bent: from 2005 to 2009-2010, I pulled out practically all the specialists I could through the forum. And either I pulled them out, or they found good places of work through the forum and left, they had no time to write on the forum.
And the trend of forum communication over time has come to the point that people began to value their time, and specialists - good specialists, began to spend less time on forums. And unfortunately, more and more loafers, trolls, all kinds of “talk”, “kick someone” began to remain on the forums ... In this form, the forum was already eating up my time, but I had to moderate it ...
That is, it turns out that the closure of the forum was a conscious decision?
Yes, absolutely.
Well, what about skills? Well, as I understand it, it was probably easier with those people who came to you from the forum, because you had such a certain acceleration distance to see what a person is: it was banal during communication on the forum ask two or three questions, maybe offer some kind of option, some kind of puzzle, see what kind of solution the person will offer. And what skills should a specialist have in order to get to your team now?
Working remotely, independently, is much more difficult than working in an office. This is a specific thing.
By itself.
First, a person should have quality, an increased level of personal motivation - to work when no one forces you. I can’t check it. But if a person comes to work with me, it means that he already has a desire. And I just close my eyes - as further, I do not look.
Over time, I realized such a thing that a person, firstly, should have an increased level of personal motivation, and secondly, he and I should spend little time on communication, but achieve a great understanding. I call this the skills of constructive written communication. And, in fact, we have a very important element in the requirements management system - this is called introductory testing, where I test this only skill. Because in the absence of this skill with a person we can’t communicate and understand each other in any way.
«ДИСТАНЦИОННАЯ РАБОТА = ПОВЫШЕННЫЙ УРОВЕНЬ ЛИЧНОЙ МОТИВАЦИИ»
То есть, можно ли сказать, что это один из неких основных принципов?
О программистах-писателях
Constructive written communication is, as it turned out, a rare but indispensable skill for distance work.
This is probably a very difficult thing for most programmers?
Yes. There is a fine line here - either you are a writer, or you are a programmer who writes nothing at all, even the code does not document. Two extremes. Constructive written communication is a very subtle concept, and I work on it every day. When I write and ask questions in writing, I also try to grind it.
Well, this saves time ...
It is a significant time saver, and this is the only moment that allows you to greatly save and achieve success in the main activities of the project.
That is, in fact, when we clean out all this garbage from the text, from speech, it is much easier for us to give the same concepts the same meaning.
Yes. Agree in three sentences. Spend a minute on this and understand.
And not in three paragraphs.
Yes. Or you flip through five pages, and a bunch of details, and you will not understand the essence.
Well, well, what other principles besides this can you name?
Well, that already shows up in the work. If there are constructive written communication skills, then the candidate reads the instructions. If he reads the instruction, performs it without question, it is clear that he has constructive written communication, and as a programmer he manifests himself in work.
Well, programming is easier here.
About Friday to Monday Nights
First: you comply with the deadlines or do not comply. Mandatory or optional. There are people who, yes, write well, write correctly, but the person took it and disappeared on the night “from Friday to Monday”.
What about this? Do you have any tools specifically for remote developers, which allows you to set deadlines, monitor the progress of the task?
This is an organizational method. This is already within the framework of technology ... There is a process of decomposition of requirements.
If I understand correctly, are we moving from the plane of philosophy to the plane of technology?
Yes. The requirement itself undergoes decomposition to such a level that one person can handle it within a reasonable time and for a reasonable fee. That is, if he says that he will make a decision in such a way, hand it over at 15 o’clock tomorrow, he wants 120 minutes to pay - this is, in principle, an adequate decomposition and an adequate assessment of the problem that exists. Accordingly, we do not have such that the employee said that he will hand over the decision at the end of the week, he wants 10 minutes to pay. And why can’t you do these 10 minutes right now, or at least some evening?
Accordingly, the first task is the task of the manager to decompose correctly so that the employee can allocate a continuous period of time, and secondly, this is the adequacy of the employees.
By the way, are the managers physically in Moscow, in the office, or are they also remotely?
The managers who are involved in projects, namely production, are remote employees. Who works where - both in Chelyabinsk, and in Ukraine ...
Good. That is, it turns out that if we are talking about some kind of automation project of something, they do not even go to the place?
Yes.
TK or not TK
And then who should? That is - where is the line between programming on TK and programming on some real business model? After all, often, in order to write a good competent TK, you have to boil in the business that you will automate.
The bottom line is that, first: 1C - this is such a tool that allows you to create something ready for the description of TK, while describing the TK. That is, the period is comparable, immersion is comparable. It turns out that our technology uses just this moment as an advantage. Someone will write TK for two months ...
... The result of the analysis of TK led to the conclusion that TK, written over 8 months, describes in detail every smallest detail of a business, but there is no new model.
Yes. Someone will write a statement of work in two months, and we will launch it in 2 months and fix it in the third month already ...
Good. Alexey Lustin and I talked about the fact that they are launching the so-called "cloud configurator" - that is, about their idea and attempt to create some kind of tools for collective development. What tools do you use? Toolkit or chips, or maybe some other variations? After all, the full-time mechanism 1C does not yet represent.
Well, there is, storage, for example, configurations. This is already a step in collective development.
Yes, but I mean that there is no final such full-scale implementation option.
We also do not have aerobatics, but there are three main components: this is a version control system - we use CVS - this is the server part; configurators - this is for every developer; requirements management system is a web-based interface. The version control system and the requirements management system are very closely interconnected. That is, in order to record any configuration change in the version control system, you need to get approval in the requirements management system.
It turns out that the requirements management system has the highest priority?
No, they are connected. If you commit changes, this is reflected in the requirements management system. To fix this, you need to get the approval of the manager to complete the task and to commit changes.
A good idea.
As a result, all moves are recorded. This is one element, a toolkit. And to work with CVS for 1C, we wrote - I ordered - commercial development, a parser that parses my configuration into texts, forms, xml, mxl and so on, that is, completely into a human-readable directory structure: document name, document such and such , form number - these are the words without any difficulties. And the disassembled configuration is stored in the version control system, and at every moment you can get an actual copy of the set of files and assemble them using this parser ...
That is, in fact, the parser is some basis for, say, a designer.
The parser is an intermediary between the version control system and the configurator.
Good. But do not you find that it is very similar to flexible methodologies? After all, the idea is the same ...
Our methodology is essentially flexible. I believe that a flexible methodology is a methodology that allows you to work with the dynamic formation of requirements. That is, I have no restrictions on how many requirements per unit of time can be processed, if we can do them in parallel ...
Flexible formation, dynamic formation of project teams: I can have a person work in this project and calmly leave it. The system itself leaves knowledge, leaves results, and then they can be reused by any other employee. This is a flexible methodology.
About ISO certification: 9001
As far as I know, you have recently been certified to ISO: 9001.
Yes.
What difficulties did you encounter? And most importantly, why? Indeed, most companies, in principle, successfully exist in this market and operate without certification. That is, whether it was a waste of time, resources and money.
The question is, why? For me, certification is a criterion for how much I am not a retrograde in this sense, how truly I am not mistaken, and the system gives the same result, maybe because I am there, right? I wanted to make sure.
Part of my system is the quality management system - as recognition by a third body, a certification body, recognition that it really meets certain international standards, and, secondly, meets the quality goals that existed in the company itself.
The main difficulty was probably that while we were not puzzled by this issue, the structure of the description of business processes, ideas about how, what, where it works, is practically my head and the heads of those employees who work in the organization. We have a very small turnover, but in order to expand, I need that a person who is in the know-how should quickly plunge into ideology.
That is, do you think that this is a certain contribution, some investment in the future development of the company?
Of course. Yes, this is the future, because I needed a description. I understand how this works, but it's me.
That is, in fact, you tried to keep up with two birds with one stone at once: on the one hand, it seems, yes, we passed certification, and on the other hand, in fact - did we build a methodology?
What is certification? Certification is the pinnacle of a large process. The first process is the development of a quality management system. The second process is the description and implementation of the system, quality elements. The third process is certification. So, the development was going on, in fact, from 2005 to 2013.
All we did, from 2005 to 2013, was to improve the system so that it would give a high-quality result: the required functionality by the expected date for an acceptable fee. The 13-14th years are a description of everything and implementation. And employees ... Their actions have already been described, they are stored in the form of schemes, and this, in essence, is a guide to the action of a new employee.
About prospects and goals
And what are the next steps, goals, stages in the development of the company?
The certification phase lasted several weeks, while checking for compliance. And this is not the final part. The next stage is the improvement of the system, because every year it is necessary to recertify. Secondly, during the implementation, we found certain missing elements in our technology.
That is, for example, I did not have numerical planning as such - I intuitively planned and intuitively checked some things. When we started to implement a quality management system, we just had to add some elements ... But the main difficulty is that there are no ready-made solutions to this. That is, this was not mainly for objective reasons, because such a specificity of software projects that this process is not so easy to come up with. For example, criteria for evaluating a manager. How to evaluate the work of a leader? We had to figure out how to count it numerically.
Can you share any professional secrets that will help our students to substantially change either their work scheme or even their life?
I can say one thing that there are no secrets. Everything that you see under your feet - you can draw your inspiration as ideas, and the only, perhaps, option - you see an idea, you don’t need to think about its implementation, you need to start implementing it, analyze the results of your work and act, and with technical details I always ready to share. But, perhaps, it will not be a wide audience, but a narrower audience, like the Infostart conference, for example, on the sidelines, please ask specific technical questions, specific questions about secrets, and I will talk about my experience.
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