Bass words of a musician



    Next in turn is another transcript of our podcast “Sound”. In the fifth issue (02/03/2014), we decided to open a series of conversations with experts from the world of music, so Timofey Shikolenkov interviewed Daniel Dobos, who plays drums in the young musical group of the BCB, on the subject of bass. The interview came out very lively, and we were able to once again expose a couple of myths, formulate a number of practical tips and conclusions.

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    • [ read ] [ listen ] Answers to questions from listeners of the podcast “Sound”;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] We discuss the nature of the different sounds of acoustics;

    • [ read ] [ listen ] Acoustics for background sounding of premises;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Answers to questions from podcast listeners;
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    • [ read ] [ listen ] Interiors for sound;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Interfaces and cables;

    • [ read ] [ listen ] In simple words about digital and analog sound;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Home acoustics and answers to questions;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Engineer's opinion: How to create your own ecosystem of sound;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Quality of audio systems: Is it worth trusting “beautiful graphics” and reviews in the press;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Answers to questions of listeners;

    • [ read ] [ listen ] Bass in the words of a musician;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Home audio systems and home cinemas;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Audio equipment for home and events;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Digital-to-analog converters;
    • [ read ] [ listen ] Portable audio systems.

    Timothy: The main topic that they talk about and compare [audio] equipment is bass. This topic in Russia is almost fundamental. When they ask about the equipment, they answer that it should "peck normally."

    It turns out that people under the bass understand completely different things. In your opinion, the look of a man who plays drums: what is bass, how do you imagine it? How do you listen to him, for example, at home? How similar is this [home] bass to what you hear when you play your musical instrument? What can you tell interesting on this topic?

    Daniel:To begin with, it seems to me that this story about a super-powerful shock bass concerns not only Russia, but also America, where people just like to hang out. To get together and soak “soak” so that it could be heard by all neighbors, friends, someone across the street, and around the car everyone would get together, start barbecue, etc. Well, as usual it happens. The main thing is to be loud and hit on the head.

    For me, bass is, first and foremost, a bass guitar. This is not the most powerful pitch, not the punch itself that people are trying to get from their stereo systems by putting giant subwoofers and buying giant speakers. For me, the melodic component is important: first of all, it should be heard normally. So that not just the bass “mutters”, and there is a continuous “cotton” blow, let it be not “cotton”, but powerful, for which nothing is heard. The main thing is that the notes are read, and it was interesting to follow the melody played by the bass.

    It doesn’t matter if it’s electronic or classical or rock music. This is an instrument, a person plays it, and he is trying to convey something. There is a barrel, it is called a "bass barrel." She does not play the role of bass, she beats the ripple, this is precisely the punch kick. And everything else is up to the guitarist, bass player, double bass player. For me, the main thing is that he [the bass] should be heard and not stick out much. So they “love” to do it in many headphones, in many cheap speaker systems - the bass is directly rushing, but it is “cottony”.

    Timothy: Actually, I got the feeling that when you listen to some very cheap systems, there is no bass kick at all, you can't hear it.

    Daniel:He, it’s kind of like, is, but he’s all sort of a mess. Pure, finite, no. But there is something, and a person thinks that it is bass. He hears something "on the lower classes," and thinks that it is bass.

    Timothy: “Low frequencies” - different people have a completely different vision of this concept. When they add low frequencies on their cheap equipment, they really don't add bass, right?

    Daniel: By and large, yes. It turns out an overload in the system and an even bigger “mess”.

    Timothy: Bass doesn’t come from this?

    Daniel: Appears, but some kind of non-musical: not the one that should have appeared.

    Timothy:That is, it turns out that there are such systems that bass can not reproduce in principle. By the way, for the first time I really heard the bass drum in the recording, when I first appeared in Audiomania several years ago, I didn’t work yet, and they turned on some kind of demo recording - then I understood what bass is. I did not just hear it, I also felt it.

    So, in order to reproduce real bass, do you need some very large speakers? There is such a myth, maybe we will confirm or refute it: if the speaker in the column is less than 15 inches, then it cannot reproduce the real bass. How do you feel? How much different is what you play in a group from what you listen to, for example, on Hi-Fi equipment?

    Daniel:It seems to me that to record a real bass, you probably really need big speakers. Different: 10, 15 and 20 inches. Because the bass can be different: both mid-frequency and super-low-frequency. And some giant speaker can be put to record supernizi.

    These are professional acoustic systems for recording, with the help of which the sound engineer cuts out all the stray frequencies, makes a normal mix. And they play well, it seems to me, and play on 10-inch speakers and bass. It all depends on the volume, on the pressure that the speaker creates.

    It is clear that from one 10-inch speaker we will not get super-powerful pressure, which will announce an area of ​​40 squares. At the same time, on average or on a quiet sound, you get an excellent bass that will be heard. There will even be a feeling that something is beating in the chest.

    Take the same small headphones, the speaker there is very small, but at the same time there is a very low bass, and it is also heard well. Therefore, I think it all depends on the sound pressure that you need to get in the end. If a person wants to get a shock wave, which can break a wall or wake a neighbor in the morning, let him buy 15-20-inch speakers, amplifiers per kilowatts of sound. The counter will spin just at a frantic speed. In this case, it will be necessary to do something with high [frequencies], and with the middle. This is also a difficult moment.

    The home systems that I have seen play well, even small speakers. I was surprised - let there be advertising, but [take] the same Arslab or Penaudio: I was [them] shocked, and MC too. Small speakers produce decent enough bass. Of course, not at the highest volume. Shelf


    speakers Arslab Emotion 1 SE is compact and designed for small rooms - engineers worked to ensure that Timofey really “sounded” in it

    :We can conclude that if we do not need to play a particularly low bass with a very high volume, then we do not need huge speakers at home. If we just want to comfortably listen to our favorite music, which, of course, has a bass component, which is an element of drive, of getting emotions, then we are not talking about the need for huge speakers with huge speakers.

    Daniel:Of course not needed. If you don’t have the feeling of a gigantic bass, you can buy a small subwoofer. And even to hide it conveniently so that it is not visible, and find a convenient location so that it sounds great. Speakers can stand close enough to the listener and be hidden somewhere in the room, the subwoofer can also be installed somewhere unnoticed. But this is if there is not enough [bass], and we, as I understand it, many of them are missing.

    Timothy: Maybe it just seems to be missing. Maybe, in fact, just enough. It just remains the traditional desire to add low frequencies, so that it seems that the sound is better, or that the bass is transmitted more effectively.

    Daniel:Well no. Everyone wants to get just a physical sensation of a pleasant vibration throughout the body. I think she relaxes a person very well. There is, of course, a difference, but not much.

    Timothy: It turns out that we are talking not only about the perception of the sound itself, but also about the whole spectrum of other sensations, without which there is no full listening.

    Daniel: It turns out that yes.

    Timothy:Roughly speaking, we can take a couple of small speakers, put them on racks, hide or successfully place a subwoofer in our apartment, which, as a rule, has a large amount of furniture. And then, despite the fact that we do not have huge speakers with huge speakers, we get sensations that can be compared with the sensations from listening to a live concert, live bass. Can you try to compare like this, or is it incorrect?

    Daniel: It is possible, but concerts are also different. If you take a giant platform, there is no question of sound quality. There, the main thing is to hear everything, the main thing is to transfer energy to a large stadium. It’s probably impossible to get such a bass at home.

    Timothy: Is it necessary?

    Daniel:And no need. Once I was at a concert of electronic music, in my opinion, it was Peaches, I never heard that. I don’t know if it’s advertising again or not, there were professional Funktion-One speakers there. They made such a powerful sound! It was clean and good enough, but it was so powerful that my whole body vibrated, and my shirt was shaking. The sound was not bad, but it was too much and I wanted to go somewhere. Many people like something similar, and they want to arrange the same at home.

    Timothy: And if it's quieter just to do? Or then the effect is lost?

    Daniel: I would probably get lost. So it turns out to be a straightforward gibberish, people go crazy and start dancing, doing crazy things.

    Timothy: Is it from the volume? Or is it some other sensations?

    Daniel: I think it's both volume and tactile sensations.

    Timothy: That is, all at once, all in a complex. We just found out that, in principle, at home you can get the same effect thanks to the small systems.

    Daniel: Yes, and still I really want to listen to music at home, and not jump to the ceiling, run, jostle and dance. I want to listen very deeply to the composition, all the instruments, and enjoy the music, and not just get a shock wave.

    Timothy: And if you want to get a shock wave?

    Daniel: It is always possible, but larger dimensions are needed for this. Not necessarily 15 inches, that's true a lot.

    Timothy:OK. We came to the conclusion that at home, in general, it is not necessary to have something huge, because the tasks of listening to music at home are slightly different.

    Daniel: Yes.

    Timothy: We want a comfortable listening experience, and if we gather some kind of party, we solve the same problems with a subwoofer or a pair of not very small speakers. And we hear real bass if the system can play it. If this is a really high-quality system, then we all hear it, and huge columns are not needed for this.

    Daniel: I think so. Well and most importantly, it’s much nicer to listen to the bass than to get a simple kick. It is nicer to enjoy music than a jackhammer.

    Timothy: The question of neighbors probably also arises.

    Daniel:Oh sure. Plus, everything else, sound engineers prepare recordings for playback at home, and the bass line is also prepared specifically for home speakers. They no longer require such reproduction as in the recording studios.

    Timothy: I don’t know how correct the question is, your opinion, where is the verge of pricing? Where do the speakers that can play real bass begin, and where do those that can't yet? Give some rough advice to listeners who want to get “that real bass” at home.

    It is clear that all the columns look the same: this is some kind of box from which something is heard, but they all cost differently. Unfortunately, as we have already said in previous issues, it is impossible to find any universal characteristics that could justify a particular choice. Even if they were published, they would be incomprehensible.

    Therefore, the characteristics that are published - the frequency ranges, as a rule, are all the same, the power practically does not mean anything, because it can be measured in different ways. For example, we can powerfully reproduce low-quality sound: roughly speaking, we won’t see the quality characteristics in the technical specifications in online stores, we don’t recognize them.

    Indirect characteristic is the price. We can estimate that there are speakers for a certain price, which can reproduce something more or less similar. Therefore, the question is: where is the edge of the price below which it is useless to look for bass in the columns?

    Daniel: According to my feelings, for the half-resident [this line] from 20 thousand starts. Of course, the higher the better, but the average price, probably 50 [thousand - at this level] will all sound good already. But cheaper than 20 thousand, it seems to me, it will be difficult to find something. Perhaps there are some instances for 20 thousand, but this must be heard.

    You can’t listen to everything in the world and you won’t go around all over the world, you won’t overhear even at exhibitions. There are also slightly cheaper, but there are already compromises. Either a compromise in materials, or in the arrangement of the speaker system itself. Even for 20 thousand, there is still a compromise in the finishing materials. Because if [for the money] the filling is excellent, the speakers sound great, then super rare veneers are out of the question. There will be a classic finish, but that's okay. But they will play high quality.

    Timothy: Roughly speaking, a person can choose for himself what is more important to him: high-quality sound or high-quality appearance.

    Daniel:Yes, probably, such a dilemma begins here: you need to either enter into the interior so that your wife is happy, or listen to music and enjoy the music. Further, it is clear that the more expensive the acoustics, the more interesting the performance, but there are still many difficulties. It already depends on the manufacturer, who has which particular policy of sound reproduction.


    Another example of complete acoustics for small spaces (that is, for example, for a relatively small apartment) is Penaudio Rebel . And in this case, the developers also paid special attention to bass

    Timofey:There is a provocative question. We, in general, discussed it, but I want from you as a professional musician to hear advice on how professional sound system is appropriate at home? To one degree or another professional. It can be club acoustics or acoustics for a studio in which sound engineers work.

    Daniel: I think it’s not particularly appropriate, unless you are a beginner sound engineer or want to make electronic music at home. Please, then you can buy monitor speakers. As for club sound reproduction, these big “coffins” of the house are not at all interesting and completely useless, because what kind of large apartment or house should it be?

    Timothy: And in a small apartment what will happen to them?

    Daniel:Never mind. They will stand, and the music will be listened to by the neighbors rather than you. The whole blow will go over the wall, down, up, where the neighbors will probably already receive a full gamut of pleasure from playing music.

    Timothy: And if you do it quieter?

    Daniel: Then they won’t give enough blow for which they are designed. Professional equipment also has a minimum playback volume and maximum. There is a range in which they work as they should, reproduce sounds well, and everything is great in balance. Below there will be blockages at high frequencies, louder - at low frequencies.

    But, nevertheless, they are designed for a long distance, and not for listening right next to the ear. They are designed for 5-10 meters, some 3 meters. Different speakers - at different distances.

    Timothy:The desire to get a real bass at home is in no way decided by the purchase of professional acoustics, large, stage, club.

    Daniel: I think not. To listen to real bass, I think you need to go to the conservatory and enjoy real music with excellent acoustics.

    Timothy: It’s somehow strange to hear the advice “go to the conservatory” from a person who plays heavy music.

    Daniel:Why not? Music is a single organism, a single being, simply embodied in different genres and played in different ways. But the basis is one. And sounds, in principle, have the same basis. Just somewhere they are electric, electronically processed, somewhere they are completely analog. But in order to understand what bass is, you must first listen to the piano in good acoustics. At the lowest frequencies, there are real vibrations, very powerful.

    Timothy: But I interrupted you about the monitor systems at home. It would seem that this is the same. What is bad monitor sound for the layman?

    Daniel: Actually, he's not very nice. If people want to enjoy music and not hear everything that happens there.

    Timothy:But what is wrong if we hear everything? There is again a myth or not a myth: people say that they want to hear a real, real, truthful sound. This is the basis for the desire to purchase professional equipment, monitor acoustics.

    Daniel: The fact is that, having bought professional monitor speakers, a person will listen at home, probably records prepared for a home system. Accordingly, something [in the sound] will climb a little different.

    Monitors serve as a working tool for a sound engineer to work with material, to cut out unnecessary pieces, to clean up some frequencies. It is for the sound engineer to hear everything in the material with which he works, and not to listen to the final result, which will sound good because he will later refine it and prepare it for media.

    There will be one mastering for vinyl, another for the network. This is another story. Even the end result on professional monitors sounds a little different than on speaker systems. All the same, everything is being prepared specifically for home speakers.

    Timothy: The problem is in the material. If they could get the source of some record, would it sound better on monitors than on the home system?

    Daniel:It would not sound better, it just would sound better. More details would be heard, both good and spurious sounds. That's all. It is just a very delicate tool. Why cut cheese with a medical scalpel?

    Timothy: Good comparison. I like.

    Daniel: It's useless. This is a long, dreary ...

    Timothy: But it is very accurate.

    Daniel: Very accurate, but not fast and uncomfortable at all. And vice versa, doing operations with a kitchen knife is also somehow not good. So it is here. This is a very delicate tool, but it is for work.

    Timothy: Can we advise our listeners who want to know what real bass is, to go to a real concert?

    Daniel:Yes, I think so. Listen to real acoustic instruments to understand that bass is not only a beat, but also a real sound, a real melody in the first place.

    After that, people's consciousness changes. I have changed, and many people, I think, after they heard something real. Organ music is also very good in this regard, it helps, there are also a lot of low frequencies. You just stop thinking about the bass as something simple, shocking, powerful, like we often do in cars.

    You begin to think more about music, about its performance, because even this kind of beat can be made by some speaker at a certain frequency, but it cannot play the whole spectrum of bass frequency. These are the problems of all cheap speaker systems. They reproduce only shock and sound at a certain frequency. It [frequency] is very small, the speakers may be small, the cases are poorly prepared, so the harmony disappears, the music disappears, there is only a beat.

    Timothy: We hear that there is a drummer there, but as a musical instrument we don’t hear him.

    Daniel:Yes, that’s why people often say that they don’t hear the bass player in the songs. Because often he plays the rhythm with the barrel and it seems that in fact the barrel only sounds. Many parties are simply not heard. After I heard high-fidelity speakers, I was amazed at how interesting many musicians are playing. I didn’t even hear that before.

    Timothy: I listened to the recording, right?

    Daniel: Yes. A lot of interesting opens.

    Timothy: So music opens in a completely different way?

    Daniel: Yes.

    Timothy:To summarize, the advice is this: first go to the concert, and then come to the store, to the showroom and listen to how it can sound on speakers. After which, I have to warn, someone may have to throw away what is in his house.

    Daniel: Unfortunately, yes. Here, I do not want to offend anyone, but everyone faces this when they understand that they need to say goodbye to their old friends, if something needs to be changed qualitatively. Nothing can be done about it.

    Timothy: In short, we warned you.

    Daniel:Yes. Unfortunately, good cannot be cheap. It is very rare [it happens: for example] when someone just gave you or was lucky. About concerts: I think you need to go not to a big stadium concert, listen to music there and demand such a sound at home, namely to a concert with a good acoustic design of the hall.

    Timothy: There, where the room is intended specifically for concerts.

    Daniel: Yes.

    Timothy: Good. And what do you say about clubs, for example, jazz clubs, also seemingly small? How much are they intended for this, how much can they be taken as a reference?

    Daniel:I think jazz fits in perfectly. This music was born and appeared in such clubs, which is why it sounds as it should. In terms of sounds, she is quite calm and quiet. Even the cymbals sound in a special way, not like the fatal cymbals that are stunning. These play musically enough.

    Everything depends on the roots, on what was originally played in such rooms, not intended for music. Well, the double bass cannot play very loudly. He plays quietly enough, therefore, to be heard, all musicians also have to play not very loudly in order to create a balance.

    Timothy:In this case, we wish you all a balance, proper sound. But the right one - not the monitor one, but the right one from which one can enjoy, cheer up, get new emotions from listening to, maybe even familiar music.

    Daniel: If you got goosebumps, then you hit the target, and you get 100 percent pleasure from the music and its listening. I have had this more than once, and I was surprised.

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