“You Know What Is Better — Do It Better”: a new podcast about the mix of work and the hobby of an editor / marketer
This is a podcast with those who write, edit, shoot photos, videos and manage content creation. Today we have prepared for you a text version of the seventh issue.
His guest is Ekaterina Kudryavtseva, content producer and marketing editor at RBC. We are talking about a mix of work and an editorial hobby.
Pictured : Catherine Howtolooksmart Kudryavtseva, content producer and marketing editor at RBC
alinatestova : We will talk today, as always in this podcast, about the content and everything connected with it. Therefore, Katya, I will ask you, as usual, to start from the beginning and tell you about your way in the editor. How did you get into this difficult area?
E: How I got edited is a good question. I still do not understand how it happened. I started working as a “communications specialist”, marketing manager, but I always liked to write. Then something went wrong: “What do you have here for the text on the landing page? And what do you have here for the text in the list? So you can not do, and let's do it differently. "
In such an atmosphere, I worked.
At some point, I started editing on a more regular basis. These were some commercial projects. Sometimes I write something for my own pleasure.
A: You started talking about how you came to the editorial topic through “you can’t do this, it’s not quite right,” and so on. How did you yourself come to an understanding of how to do it right, and understand what should be changed and where?
How did you get a lot of looking?
E: As they always say, if you want to learn how to write, then read and write. It seems to me that this is an experience that comes at some point, and you begin to see [opportunities for improvement]. For example, in video games there is a button that you press and highlight enemies. Here at some point this began to work. You just look at the text, and you highlight some points, there are questions and options for how to redo it.
A: In any case, this comes with practice, and this means that before commercial projects and serious tasks related to the text, you wrote for yourself in one way or another.
Please tell us about your projects at the junction of hobbies and texts.
I know that you write about books and TV shows. How did all this translate into a Telegram channel , interesting texts and, in general, a story related to content?
E: It all started at the university. My first education is journalistic. I received it at the Higher School of Economics, then it was a department of business and political journalism, it was called so pathetically, and then became a department of media and communications.
We found one of the earliest versions of the program, where every year you had to read books on Russian and Western literature. There are such books that if you compose them, they will be taller than you are. And you had two months for it.
Of course, two months will be enough to read several centuries of Russian literature, and then another Western. And these are two pairs, and you have fifteen more.
When you read at this pace, then you tell about it at the same pace, and then you write, there are simply no options left: you either survive or do not survive.
And this approach remained. I am always interested in trying to describe some kind of experience, because this is how you understand it better yourself. This is a habit that I have left from the university. She became my interest, because if you are not interested, you have to go and do something else. Otherwise, you will simply die and hate everything that surrounds you.
When I stopped getting “hardcore” liberal arts education, I wanted to maintain a connection with this. So it happened. I have not yet invented any kind of permanent work related to cultural work. Where I owe nothing to anyone?
I'll get myself a channel in.
In the photo: Alina Testova, founderGlyph Media
A:You add some hardcore to your hobbies.
E:Yes.
A: Tell, please, about your channel. Why do you choose these series and books? Does your journalistic education influence your taste in this case?
E: Taste is, of course, beautifully named. In fact, on the issue of choice - what to read and what to watch - a lot of beer was spilled during stormy humanitarian discussions.
In culture, there is an idea that there is a high, medium and low culture, and there is some kind of “complete slag”. And if you look at the “full shame”, then you yourself, most likely, are not a very educated person. But I had my favorite professor in cultural studies, who adored absolutely “slag” horror films, where all that blood was.
A: Slasher .
E:Yes Yes. He analyzed them very cool. And this man - a professor, doctor of philological sciences, super-dude dude. At some point, when you cook for a very long time in this, you realize that the separation into high and low culture is complete bullshit.
The question is, how do you yourself look at it.
In fact, in any absolutely weird series or absolutely weirdest book you can find a lot of interesting things from a cultural or sociological point of view. From the point of view of how you look at it or how other people look at it, how they perceive it, what they take from it. This huge context applies to everything that culture produces.
A: I immediately got a tricky question in connection with our work on content. Do you think this cultural basis gives you the opportunity, when dealing with some work topics, to look at the problem from an interesting point of view and to develop it from an interesting point of view? Since there are no topics that are frankly “high” or frankly “low”.
E: Or rather, frankly uninteresting.
A: Yes. Frankly boring or frankly interesting.
E: Yes, of course. This is also a lot of experience and experience. As they say, traditional education on memorizing facts has died. You just need to google well and be able to understand the sources - choose what is interesting from this and what is not very good.
A: Now the idea of a technical background with writing people is very popular; that it’s great, because they’re better off to understand the technical nuances of what they’re writing about (if it’s a technology or production area, for example).
In spite of this, humanitarian education and a humanitarian basis give just this interesting “empowerment”, the opportunity to pull out un-trivial things, look at the question from an unusual side, and make an interesting topic out of a potentially boring topic.
E: Probably, yes. About the resistance between humanitarian and technical education: for me, humanitarian education has always been about explaining the world. The technology will help you get from point A to point B more efficiently and productively. Humanitarian education will tell you what is there at point A and at point B; why do you need this way; who are you; that you will understand yourself when you get from point A to point B; who else went this way and what did he get for himself. And also - here is a selection of books about travels from point A to point B.
A: I think that you have now listed the mini-checklist by topic for any company. Who are you, what will you carry out for yourself, if you use our product, why do you need to use it and so on.
E:In fact, yes. Any humanitarian direction is very strongly tied to storytelling, on this banal word. Marketing is essentially storytelling. That's why I got everything connected in one.
This in many respects complicates life when you come somewhere and you begin to see semantic lacunae that people do not want to fill. They are okay - everything works: the traffic is “trafficked”, everything is sold, “lentils are lentils”.
Seeing such moments is like that.
A: You feel an unclosed gestalt that needs to be closed.
In the photo: Catherine howtolooksmart Kudryavtseva, content producer and marketing editor at RBC
E:It's like one of my favorite jokes that if you have a liberal arts education, you can’t normally watch, read, or be somewhere, and always be content.
You always begin to analyze this, and it is impossible to "unwrap" the sociocultural prerequisites of something. You'll just always see it. And you think: "Damn, I could have fun, but this is ...".
A: A good piece of advice is to attract humanities to the editorial team, who will see and say: “No, guys, this is what this and that is missing”.
A: I’ll come back to editing and writing again. Some time ago it was very popular to all be stylists. Relatively speaking, every person who understood something on Instagram and saw a couple of glossy magazines called himself a stylist and said that he was working in a creative profession. Do you think there is such a problem or such a phenomenon in the editor now, when so many people go into the profession?
Again, not everyone has a specific background in terms of education. It turns out that everything is in this profession, and it is not clear which of them is really professional and who is not. Was there a desire to build up from this image when each editor?
E: Not really. I call myself an editor not long ago. For me, all this running around is someone in a white raincoat, and someone in an even more white raincoat; someone is a labor editor, and someone is not a labor editor - it is rather strange. For me, it was always just a function of something that you can bring to the project, work of any kind.
This function I can do at a certain level. And the style depends on the task. There are tasks where you are given 140 slides consisting of percent signs, numbers and abbreviations, and they say: "We want to make an intelligible presentation out of this."
It does not need a style - you need to disassemble this pile of slides into pieces of meaning. This is a function you can do in any situation and in any situation, if you know how to do it well.
A: Do you think that courses or additional education are necessary in order to be able to do it well? Is it possible to just take and start writing cool?
E: I do not even know. What does it mean to write cool?
A: In your opinion. Here you see some article or just someone writes interesting material on Facebook - and you understand that it is catchy and it is interesting.
E: These are also very different things. On the one hand, there are people who are really fucking writing life sketches on Facebook, but they don’t make a profession out of it and, most likely, don’t, because they don’t like that.
They can write what happened to them, fun and funny, and in life they are sales managers. Well, well done, interesting to read you, great.
There are people who have been doing copywriting for several years, and everything they write looks weird. On the other hand, if they are able to sell their services, then this is someone you need. I speak as a person who does not want to stand in a white raincoat. Life is flowing, something will die, something will remain. Everything is changing.
A: Do you not think that there is a hard way of a samurai that an editor has to go through without which he cannot be called a full-fledged editor or author?
Take the topic of commercial journalism and writing. It is clear that you can be Charles Bukowski and write on the table for many years and so on.
E: He's been writing to the table for many years. This is a very strange way of telling a story about a dude who “herachil” for many years, did not lose motivation. In commercial editing, few people do that. If someone doesn’t like your text, that's all, “I throw the pen right away.”
Probably not. There is, of course, the temptation to turn on the internal snob and say that if you haven’t read Pasternak, what are you doing here? Not really. I know people who can write well without a special large background of reading or humanitarian writing.
A: How do you define the inner badger? Did you have any books, works or notes that influenced your writing and editing experience?
E: In a professional sense or in general?
A: And so and so.
E: Yes. Like all writers of some kind, I read Write, Cut, some time ago, and I liked it. This is a good tool in our difficult time - when information rolls on you from all cracks, and words that are repeated in all this information can be simply removed, because they are really superfluous. I think there is not something that I reread every night before bed, so as not to lose talent in any way.
In the photo: Alina Testova, founderGlyph Media
A:To hell with the literature, just sit down and write.
E:Well, yes. Just sit down and read, and then sit down and write.
A:You have the most liberal approach. If someone reads you, if your work is evaluated positively, it has a right to exist. If not, you need to change something.
E:There are moments when you meet a Telegram channel or something else, and you see it and think: “Well, this is a complete garbage.” And this bunch of subscribers. You can get a few points in his self-esteem, calling this author and all his readers fools. From this you will not write better, and more followers you will not appear. You spent your emotions - well done. Could write at this time.
BUT:Good advice. Every time you experience a negative, start writing.
E: Yes. You look at some text and you think: “Damn, I can do that too.” Go and do the same. And better go and do better.
A: Do you have any tricks that help you cheer up, when you need to write something and do not go?
E: According to the classics - to be distracted by something else. If you understand that you “shut up”, then the longer you stand in front of this wall, the more irritation it will cause you, and the greater will be your “plug”.
A: What distracts you at such moments?
E: Do another task, switch to another job. Sort layouts, "comb" task tracker. Physical activities help: walk or do exercises, go to the sport. It would be a good advice to just go to bed, but for some reason it does not work for me.
A: He doesn't work for me either.
E: Thank God. I'm not the only one so strange.
A: And my traditional blitz. Please continue the phrase. I write because ...
E: I like it.
A: A cool text is ...
E: Do not say - mine, do not say - mine. Who read to the end.
His guest is Ekaterina Kudryavtseva, content producer and marketing editor at RBC. We are talking about a mix of work and an editorial hobby.
Pictured : Catherine Howtolooksmart Kudryavtseva, content producer and marketing editor at RBCalinatestova : We will talk today, as always in this podcast, about the content and everything connected with it. Therefore, Katya, I will ask you, as usual, to start from the beginning and tell you about your way in the editor. How did you get into this difficult area?
E: How I got edited is a good question. I still do not understand how it happened. I started working as a “communications specialist”, marketing manager, but I always liked to write. Then something went wrong: “What do you have here for the text on the landing page? And what do you have here for the text in the list? So you can not do, and let's do it differently. "
In such an atmosphere, I worked.
You know what's best - do it better. So it all spun.
At some point, I started editing on a more regular basis. These were some commercial projects. Sometimes I write something for my own pleasure.
A: You started talking about how you came to the editorial topic through “you can’t do this, it’s not quite right,” and so on. How did you yourself come to an understanding of how to do it right, and understand what should be changed and where?
How did you get a lot of looking?
E: As they always say, if you want to learn how to write, then read and write. It seems to me that this is an experience that comes at some point, and you begin to see [opportunities for improvement]. For example, in video games there is a button that you press and highlight enemies. Here at some point this began to work. You just look at the text, and you highlight some points, there are questions and options for how to redo it.
A: In any case, this comes with practice, and this means that before commercial projects and serious tasks related to the text, you wrote for yourself in one way or another.
Please tell us about your projects at the junction of hobbies and texts.
I know that you write about books and TV shows. How did all this translate into a Telegram channel , interesting texts and, in general, a story related to content?
E: It all started at the university. My first education is journalistic. I received it at the Higher School of Economics, then it was a department of business and political journalism, it was called so pathetically, and then became a department of media and communications.
We found one of the earliest versions of the program, where every year you had to read books on Russian and Western literature. There are such books that if you compose them, they will be taller than you are. And you had two months for it.
Of course, two months will be enough to read several centuries of Russian literature, and then another Western. And these are two pairs, and you have fifteen more.
When you read at this pace, then you tell about it at the same pace, and then you write, there are simply no options left: you either survive or do not survive.
And this approach remained. I am always interested in trying to describe some kind of experience, because this is how you understand it better yourself. This is a habit that I have left from the university. She became my interest, because if you are not interested, you have to go and do something else. Otherwise, you will simply die and hate everything that surrounds you.
When I stopped getting “hardcore” liberal arts education, I wanted to maintain a connection with this. So it happened. I have not yet invented any kind of permanent work related to cultural work. Where I owe nothing to anyone?
I'll get myself a channel in
.In the photo: Alina Testova, founder
Glyph MediaA:You add some hardcore to your hobbies.
E:Yes.
A: Tell, please, about your channel. Why do you choose these series and books? Does your journalistic education influence your taste in this case?
E: Taste is, of course, beautifully named. In fact, on the issue of choice - what to read and what to watch - a lot of beer was spilled during stormy humanitarian discussions.
In culture, there is an idea that there is a high, medium and low culture, and there is some kind of “complete slag”. And if you look at the “full shame”, then you yourself, most likely, are not a very educated person. But I had my favorite professor in cultural studies, who adored absolutely “slag” horror films, where all that blood was.
A: Slasher .
E:Yes Yes. He analyzed them very cool. And this man - a professor, doctor of philological sciences, super-dude dude. At some point, when you cook for a very long time in this, you realize that the separation into high and low culture is complete bullshit.
The question is, how do you yourself look at it.
In fact, in any absolutely weird series or absolutely weirdest book you can find a lot of interesting things from a cultural or sociological point of view. From the point of view of how you look at it or how other people look at it, how they perceive it, what they take from it. This huge context applies to everything that culture produces.
The question of how to choose ... Just: what you like, see. The question is how do you see it, what do you take out of it for yourself?
A: I immediately got a tricky question in connection with our work on content. Do you think this cultural basis gives you the opportunity, when dealing with some work topics, to look at the problem from an interesting point of view and to develop it from an interesting point of view? Since there are no topics that are frankly “high” or frankly “low”.
E: Or rather, frankly uninteresting.
A: Yes. Frankly boring or frankly interesting.
E: Yes, of course. This is also a lot of experience and experience. As they say, traditional education on memorizing facts has died. You just need to google well and be able to understand the sources - choose what is interesting from this and what is not very good.
A: Now the idea of a technical background with writing people is very popular; that it’s great, because they’re better off to understand the technical nuances of what they’re writing about (if it’s a technology or production area, for example).
In spite of this, humanitarian education and a humanitarian basis give just this interesting “empowerment”, the opportunity to pull out un-trivial things, look at the question from an unusual side, and make an interesting topic out of a potentially boring topic.
E: Probably, yes. About the resistance between humanitarian and technical education: for me, humanitarian education has always been about explaining the world. The technology will help you get from point A to point B more efficiently and productively. Humanitarian education will tell you what is there at point A and at point B; why do you need this way; who are you; that you will understand yourself when you get from point A to point B; who else went this way and what did he get for himself. And also - here is a selection of books about travels from point A to point B.
A: I think that you have now listed the mini-checklist by topic for any company. Who are you, what will you carry out for yourself, if you use our product, why do you need to use it and so on.
E:In fact, yes. Any humanitarian direction is very strongly tied to storytelling, on this banal word. Marketing is essentially storytelling. That's why I got everything connected in one.
This in many respects complicates life when you come somewhere and you begin to see semantic lacunae that people do not want to fill. They are okay - everything works: the traffic is “trafficked”, everything is sold, “lentils are lentils”.
Seeing such moments is like that.
A: You feel an unclosed gestalt that needs to be closed.
In the photo: Catherine howtolooksmart Kudryavtseva, content producer and marketing editor at RBC
E:It's like one of my favorite jokes that if you have a liberal arts education, you can’t normally watch, read, or be somewhere, and always be content.
You always begin to analyze this, and it is impossible to "unwrap" the sociocultural prerequisites of something. You'll just always see it. And you think: "Damn, I could have fun, but this is ...".
A: A good piece of advice is to attract humanities to the editorial team, who will see and say: “No, guys, this is what this and that is missing”.
A: I’ll come back to editing and writing again. Some time ago it was very popular to all be stylists. Relatively speaking, every person who understood something on Instagram and saw a couple of glossy magazines called himself a stylist and said that he was working in a creative profession. Do you think there is such a problem or such a phenomenon in the editor now, when so many people go into the profession?
Again, not everyone has a specific background in terms of education. It turns out that everything is in this profession, and it is not clear which of them is really professional and who is not. Was there a desire to build up from this image when each editor?
E: Not really. I call myself an editor not long ago. For me, all this running around is someone in a white raincoat, and someone in an even more white raincoat; someone is a labor editor, and someone is not a labor editor - it is rather strange. For me, it was always just a function of something that you can bring to the project, work of any kind.
This function I can do at a certain level. And the style depends on the task. There are tasks where you are given 140 slides consisting of percent signs, numbers and abbreviations, and they say: "We want to make an intelligible presentation out of this."
It does not need a style - you need to disassemble this pile of slides into pieces of meaning. This is a function you can do in any situation and in any situation, if you know how to do it well.
A: Do you think that courses or additional education are necessary in order to be able to do it well? Is it possible to just take and start writing cool?
E: I do not even know. What does it mean to write cool?
A: In your opinion. Here you see some article or just someone writes interesting material on Facebook - and you understand that it is catchy and it is interesting.
E: These are also very different things. On the one hand, there are people who are really fucking writing life sketches on Facebook, but they don’t make a profession out of it and, most likely, don’t, because they don’t like that.
They can write what happened to them, fun and funny, and in life they are sales managers. Well, well done, interesting to read you, great.
There are people who have been doing copywriting for several years, and everything they write looks weird. On the other hand, if they are able to sell their services, then this is someone you need. I speak as a person who does not want to stand in a white raincoat. Life is flowing, something will die, something will remain. Everything is changing.
A: Do you not think that there is a hard way of a samurai that an editor has to go through without which he cannot be called a full-fledged editor or author?
Take the topic of commercial journalism and writing. It is clear that you can be Charles Bukowski and write on the table for many years and so on.
E: He's been writing to the table for many years. This is a very strange way of telling a story about a dude who “herachil” for many years, did not lose motivation. In commercial editing, few people do that. If someone doesn’t like your text, that's all, “I throw the pen right away.”
Probably not. There is, of course, the temptation to turn on the internal snob and say that if you haven’t read Pasternak, what are you doing here? Not really. I know people who can write well without a special large background of reading or humanitarian writing.
The main principle is just to look at your text every time and ask yourself if I write as a badger. If as a badger, then it is necessary to rewrite. That's all.
A: How do you define the inner badger? Did you have any books, works or notes that influenced your writing and editing experience?
E: In a professional sense or in general?
A: And so and so.
E: Yes. Like all writers of some kind, I read Write, Cut, some time ago, and I liked it. This is a good tool in our difficult time - when information rolls on you from all cracks, and words that are repeated in all this information can be simply removed, because they are really superfluous. I think there is not something that I reread every night before bed, so as not to lose talent in any way.
In the photo: Alina Testova, founder
Glyph MediaA:To hell with the literature, just sit down and write.
E:Well, yes. Just sit down and read, and then sit down and write.
A:You have the most liberal approach. If someone reads you, if your work is evaluated positively, it has a right to exist. If not, you need to change something.
E:There are moments when you meet a Telegram channel or something else, and you see it and think: “Well, this is a complete garbage.” And this bunch of subscribers. You can get a few points in his self-esteem, calling this author and all his readers fools. From this you will not write better, and more followers you will not appear. You spent your emotions - well done. Could write at this time.
BUT:Good advice. Every time you experience a negative, start writing.
E: Yes. You look at some text and you think: “Damn, I can do that too.” Go and do the same. And better go and do better.
A: Do you have any tricks that help you cheer up, when you need to write something and do not go?
E: According to the classics - to be distracted by something else. If you understand that you “shut up”, then the longer you stand in front of this wall, the more irritation it will cause you, and the greater will be your “plug”.
A: What distracts you at such moments?
E: Do another task, switch to another job. Sort layouts, "comb" task tracker. Physical activities help: walk or do exercises, go to the sport. It would be a good advice to just go to bed, but for some reason it does not work for me.
A: He doesn't work for me either.
E: Thank God. I'm not the only one so strange.
A: And my traditional blitz. Please continue the phrase. I write because ...
E: I like it.
A: A cool text is ...
E: Do not say - mine, do not say - mine. Who read to the end.
Our microformat for those who are interested in the work of the editor:Archetypes: why the stories work
Case: avtogeiki, Fintech and content marketing, or why the insurer is outsourced to IT-editors