Uneducated youth: an attempt to summarize a bit of personal

    So, in the wake of the three publications of September 30 , 03.10 and 04.10, I decided to take a chance and try to summarize. Of course, there are not enough comments from large companies with their private schools, internship programs, etc., comments from the administration of universities (although I’ll try to cover some of them) and some others. Of those that I took into account (the most difficult was to look at this bunch of comments) - 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 . Therefore, I urge all authors to comment on whether I conveyed their position correctly : enchantinggg , san-smith , Axelus , MooNDeaR ,> Varim ,ternaus , PavelMSTU .

    So, at first there will be a simple comparison table, and then a little thought and suggestions on what to do.

    Controversial positionStudentsTeachersEmployers
    Education system “Yes, everything is rotten here, the system needs to be changed!”“Yes, everything is rotten here, the system needs to be changed!”“Yes, everything is rotten here, the system needs to be changed!”
    Taught subjectsAbsolutely obsolete or not necessary in practice.We cannot even change anything, because these are the plans of the Ministry of Education.Are they sitting there, pants ?!
    Teacher competencyIf a sufficiently strong teacher comes across - it’s already luck, if he is also interested in your development - success!The most adequate teachers are "asked", there are practically no specialists: either the old school or ideological + turnover remained.How can a teacher be competent if he is a theorist ?!
    The personal qualities of studentsWell, yes, we are not experienced, but we want to learn and not survive! We can prove
    that we will be useful, just tell me how and give some time.
    For the whole group, one and a half anonymous, who are interested in learning. In general, 5% of interested students are not so bad.Inexperienced people come, without knowledge and skills, who are unlikely to join the company and ask for salaries of their superiors.
    Practical skills systemThey don’t teach anything useful, they don’t take work, they can’t combine, it’s difficult to get experience, there’s no time left for the rest (taking into account youth).Students cannot even complete all laboratory tests as they should, so what can we say about something more serious? .. You can still do something with one and a half anonymuses, but there is not always time and motivation to learn them.Universities absolutely scored on practice.

    This is the end of the table, because it becomes difficult to select something fairly general further (however, if I missed something, I will be glad for your additions), and the review of the situation begins.

    A little bit about yourself. One of the best students of one of the best gymnasiums in Yekaterinburg, a fairly mediocre student at MatMech SPbU (2 years), a fairly good student at ITASU MISiS (3 year). On MatMekh, as part of the student council, he actively worked with the teaching and methodological committee of St. Petersburg State University, including regarding the presentation by students of their wishes in the educational process (up to the opening of a new direction), cooperation with companies in matters of practice, and other and other attempts to build triangular relations -Training-Business.

    1. As you can see, there is nothing special to say about the education system. As long as the Ministry releases instructions from above, loading everyone with bureaucracy, red tape and reporting, it tries to introduce KPI among teachers by the number of students who have settled down or decides which of the two books is strongly recommended for the educational process, and which is not very good, it is unlikely to become better. According to my observations, a rigid vertical hierarchy in education almost never worked, except in extreme situations.
    2. But with the subjects taught is already more interesting. Formally, they should correspond to the curriculum, the number of hours, competencies and what not, so much so that it’s easier to study the creation of cartoons in PowerPoint and say that it develops a lot of all kinds of skills. The commission will be pleased. Informally, the teacher, with the approval of the department (and sometimes even without it), can include almost anything in his subject if the above criteria can be justified. For example, a commit equipped with a comment is teamwork and the ability to self-presentation (after all, they are written in such a way that they
      approve the commit, why not pre-election speech ?!)
    3. Judging by the picture I know, everything is rather sad with the competencies of most teachers in most universities, but I actively disagree about theorists. MatMekh, where I studied, gave mostly theoretical education. Only math. And again, math. Well, a little physics, mathematical. Pros to know how to work with mathematics. Well, run around and speak English, since the Ministry wants ... For a casual employer, a mathematics student does not know anything useful, and only companies where mathematics are needed in projects understand the price if a particular student has it, of course.
    4. Students. These are young people who are socially protected enough that they do not have to drop out of school and go to work. These are people who want to choose a job, and then, when they are ready for this. For some of them, questions such as a dormitory or an army may be critical, but no more. They can afford a choice, and as long as the status quo persists, they will want a lot, but not much to be able to. And before, the grass was greener, yes.
      Among all this number of students there are really people with burning eyes (ideally), people who want to study (also good) or people who understand why they need to study (quite good). So they are desirable enough for recurs, if students needed recurs.
    5. But with practice, everything is bad. And not through the fault of universities, no. The fault of the companies. Several large IT companies at one time merged and opened the Computer Science Center because they needed people. Some small companies openly want to find a cheap and good programmer among students in exchange for some help to the university. Other companies conclude agreements with the university on cooperation and give lectures, even conduct additional courses. There is only one problem with universities - for the most part, there is so much bureaucracy in concluding such an agreement that it is easier to do everything in gray or not at all.

    What to do with all this?

    Students - to kick everyone and everything that is possible to get the right to manage their education. Search for lectures, courses, arrange internships and internships. And yes, your project is really a great idea, developing a bunch of skills. But that’s all, of course, if you’ve already played enough in your youth and your future is more precious to you than your current hobby. As practice shows, you can ask as much as you like if you have something to offer for it. And this is not a banal “ability to learn”, “desire to work in a team”, but, first of all, interest in the case.

    For teachers ... I have only one idea in my head - to conduct private education like clubs for those who need it. Gaining one and a half anonymus from the stream, reading the same thing in different universities, everything can work out. But in general - thank you. And a happy holiday.

    For companies - to understand that they are not taught more by specialists. Specialists will not go to you just like that. You can try to buy them, you can educate (also buy, only in a different format) and that's it. Even students have the right to choose, and other things being equal, the waiter’s career can suit them more. Therefore, if you do not want to be stylish, fashionable and youthful, think about what else can be attractive to a person whose labor force you would like to use. Only one flexible schedule for a young specialist is a huge plus to the vacancy.

    Young people are not uneducated. She is still young and cannot cope with the colossus of the Ministry in order to become an expert contrary. And about those students who are no longer youth - you yourself know everything.

    PS I will tell about my experience and results separately, in the comments, if there is a desire.

    UPD1: Due bopoh13 , pointed to an article easimonenko , comment mdanshina in the article from the point of view of the university and "how eleyu per capita," the article aleshqqa1337 I decided to interview acquaintances teachers, raise the old contacts and tell about another side of this problem.
    1. As I said, for me, as a member of the student council at that time, it was surprising enough that SPbU takes some courses with Coursera. Moreover, a sufficient number of teachers (60-80% of my circle of friends) are ready to regard these courses as actual knowledge of the subject.
    2. Since there are private universities both for obtaining a diploma of higher education and, in principle, not giving it, but with international recognition , then speaking of higher education in general, it makes sense to exclude such peaks on both sides. Including one and a half anonymous, who really know why they went to university, or even could have done without it (I could, for example, but the career of a system administrator is not the one I would like to build), as well as people who only for dorms and respite. De jure, we have a lot of qualified software engineers at the output, de facto they are inferior in qualifications to schoolchildren with burning eyes. This is an industry problem that needs to be addressed.
    3. At the moment, the market is really pretty good at adjusting to the current situation, evaluating primarily the profile of the github, various courses, even just listening to lectures and internships, as more significant than a diploma. These are, perhaps, the best indicators available at the moment, but there are often simply no place for read books, skills in related fields.

    Summary: At the moment, there is practically no education system in IT. At the very least, the mathematical system of education is coping, as an adjacent one, but good mathematical universities can be counted on the fingers (IMHO). And with all this, within the framework of the current reality, personally I can offer only 4 solutions:
    1. To achieve greater freedom of universities from the Ministry of Education, raise teachers' salaries, establish cooperation with business (unrealistic)
    2. Try to arrange the educational process in universities so that it formally fits the criteria of the Ministry, but focuses on laboratories at the university, on Kurser, on a valid business request (optimistic)
    3. To establish cooperative educational institutions such as Computer Science Center, ShAD and others, aimed at catching one and a half anonymous from each stream of each university, so that they can be trained and set an example (because they are highly appreciated from a professional point of view) by the rest (optimistic)
    4. Actively, in places, offer internships and internships with pre-selection (realistic)
    5. Leave the situation as it is, hoping that people who are ready to study independently (you could) will be enough to cover demand (pessimistic)


    I will be very happy to be mistaken, honestly. But when I look (and looked) at classmates, for some reason I remember only this monologue.
    18+


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