TekhnoLive: VR and platforms of the future (Maxim Pestun, Dmitry Trubitsyn)
This year's rising trend is VR games. Rising even longer, but in no way able to raise his head trend - helmets and VR glasses. Once every few months, another major technology company announces its virtual reality device. However, no one has yet offered a decent combination of price and quality. What awaits this direction of game development? Will virtual reality technology conquer the mass market? Will there be a boom in games for VR devices? And if the future is not theirs, then what?
This and other questions in the final broadcast of TechnoLive this year will be answered by the leading virtual reality programmer Maxim Pestun and the leading virtual reality designer Dmitry Trubitsyn. Read the decryption under the cut.
- Player and game, interface as a link, Olga Schubert
- How to promote your game among thousands of competitors, Maxim Samoilenko
- How to create a successful mobile game, Ivan Fedyanin
- History of the gaming industry, Alexander Kuzmenko
Alexander Kuzmenko: Good evening, dear friends, dear viewers. Today we have another series of "Technostream" dedicated to the development of video games. Today we will talk about the most trending topic that can only be imagined in the modern gaming industry - the topic of virtual reality. Today, our guests are people who are most directly related to virtual reality - this is the leading virtual reality programmer at Mail.Ru Games Maxim Pestun. Maxim, very nice.
Maxim Pestun: Hello everyone.
A.K .:And the leading designer of virtual reality Dmitry Trubitsyn. Maxim, Dima, as you understand, are now busy on the only project that we have on virtual reality in the company - is it AR Invaders?
Dmitry Trubitsyn: VR Invaders .
A.K .: We will get to AR. Now we will talk about the game, virtual reality and the industry. But first, let's talk about you. I ask this question to all the people who come here, everyone has a completely different story, but in general something similar. How did you get into the games? Maxim, let's start with you. How did you find yourself here?
M.P .:It's a long story. About 10 years ago — maybe a little less, maybe a little more — I studied virtual reality at the university at the Faculty of Computational Mathematics and Cybernetics of Moscow State University. At a friendly Faculty of Psychology, they set up, called Cave. This is a big box of screens, a cave. The screens are large, approximately 2 by 2 meters, that is, a person is placed there quite normally at full height. There is a front screen, right, left and floor. Specifically, in this installation, only such a set of screens. The screen and floor are transparent. On opposite sides there are projectors that illuminate, make a picture. There is a person inside, glasses are fixed on it, and there are sensors on the glasses, such horns, and they have round balls at the end for air tracking using infrared color. There are cameras in the corners of this Cave, where the head position of a person or player is tracked. After that, the image is rendered to each of these projectors, and these are four computers, each computer renders its own image, they are all synchronized over the network, and an individual image for the left and right eyes is displayed. First for the left, then for the right then they change back. And so the effect of a virtual environment is created. And there you can feel like a hologram, because we see our hands. The glasses are translucent, we look at the screens, and the screens are so well fitted to each other that the joints are not visible, and it seems to us that we are really in a virtual environment around the hologram. they are all synchronized over the network, and an individual image for the left and right eye is displayed. First for the left, then for the right then they change back. And so the effect of a virtual environment is created. And there you can feel like a hologram, because we see our hands. The glasses are translucent, we look at the screens, and the screens are so well fitted to each other that the joints are not visible, and it seems to us that we are really in a virtual environment around the hologram. they are all synchronized over the network, and an individual image for the left and right eye is displayed. First for the left, then for the right then they change back. And so the effect of a virtual environment is created. And there you can feel like a hologram, because we see our hands. The glasses are translucent, we look at the screens, and the screens are so well fitted to each other that the joints are not visible, and it seems to us that we are really in a virtual environment around the hologram.
AK: You describe it in detail, you can immediately see that he is a person of a technical specialty.
MP: I talked a lot about this. I even have a whole story ready.
A.K .: I have already painted a whole picture. I had the feeling that I myself worked in this laboratory. And how did you suffer from this ...?
M.P .:In general, I started doing this for a very long time. We conducted various experiments with the faculty of psychology, studied how virtual reality affects a person, how a person perceives virtual reality, wrote all kinds of articles. After some time, I came to work for Mail.Ru Group and immediately went to gamedev. Here he wrote that “I want to come to work with you. Please consider my candidacy ”-“ Come on, come. ” Passed the interview, everything was successful.
Initially, he began working on Allods Online (MMO RPG).
He played the game there. After that, he switched to another project, then worked in many other projects. In the end, my experience with virtual reality - it existed in parallel - intersected with the experience of developing computer games, and so the VR Invaders project began. And now I do it.
A.K .: I see. A long story, but instructive. Dmitry, how did you get into the games?
D.T .:Everything is more humanitarian for me, as befits a designer, although we are also a technical specialty, a lot needs to be able to do technical. But I came from gaming journalism - I was interested in games from childhood, grew up on them. Then he worked at the Technomir Publishing House. Well, surely everyone knows the names of magazines better than the name of the publishing house itself - these are "Gambling", "Best Computer Games" and "World of Fantasy". He wrote articles there, was an editor.
D.T .:... and then "Best Computer Games" began to decline, and this was the main place where I worked. And at some point I realized that I needed to look for something new, opened HeadHunter, began to think about what I’m still good for. And then a day later, a friend who worked here as a programmer on the Allods Online project wrote to me: “But we need designers. Do you want to try? ” I am like this: “Well, why not try it? Cool". And he so relaxed me. Whatever I did, he said: “Yes, do not strain there. Write something, come. Everything will be OK". Nevertheless, I approached responsibly, but did not think that there would be such a serious selection and competition when I went. But thanks precisely to the fact that he loaded me so, as if it were all easy, and the matter was already decided. Apparently, I got here safely. And it was already, scary to imagine, five and a half years ago.
We switched not so long ago to VR Invaders. But we are already in full swing, and should be out pretty soon.
AK: Here we must also add that the guys work in the office, and we are sitting on the same floor. Literally 10 meters from me. And this is the coolest workplace that is in the gaming department, because people are sitting, negotiating, and more. Only in the daisy among the tables where the guys are sitting, constantly some strange people make strange movements, as we say.
MP: So we have a problem with this, even almost an injury. If the two of us, the three of us get up, then we begin to intersect.
A.K .:Yes, it's getting a little narrower. Let's get back to virtual reality. I will formulate the question simply, in a newspaper: myth or reality? For myself, I still can not formulate the answer to this question. I've reviewed VR so much over the last couple of years. I was at the Games Developers Conference in San Francisco this February. Probably the most famous industrial exhibition, or rather even a conference. It was hard to find any booth or some booth without VR. There was a joke that they had “VR Free”. And I still do not understand. I saw HTC Vive, I saw Sony, which is now called Sony VR.
DT .: And Oculus, probably, here we are lying.
A.K .: Naturally. I still can’t understand. On the one hand, it’s kind of cool, but after 10 minutes, rocking begins.
M.P .:This is a deep topic.
A.K .: Yes. In my opinion, there is some kind of drawback in virtual reality, as I see from my experience: transferring more than half an hour is very difficult. Maybe this is the trend of modern times, when there is a short session and so on. Even video game advertisements saw how it was done: he came home while his wife was warming up borsch and quickly played. What do you think about this? Not from the point of view of the developer. At first it’s interesting to hear you as a user.
D.T .:From the player’s point of view, I spend up to three hours in virtual reality, and I feel comfortable. Just get out, of course, as if from a bathhouse - all red, but played comfortably. Get used to it. But different people have different ways. We drive people to test the game, and someone gets tired very quickly - in 10-15 minutes - especially those who have vision problems. This issue has not yet been resolved how to combine virtual reality and glasses. These people fly out the fastest. But I'm already comfortable.
AK: That is, it is a matter of habit. A lot of gamers who never played on a PC, but played on consoles, and vice versa, often take the mouse: "What, do you play this?" And vice versa, they take gamepads: “How about shooters? It’s not possible at all. ” Maybe.
M.P .:I can answer for the technical side. Why is motion sickness? First of all, and this is the most commonplace problem of any games that are under development - this is a low frame rate - the number of frames per second is very low. If it is below 45, then it is difficult to perceive. That is, we turn our heads, our world begins to lag behind what we expect to see: the vestibular apparatus, brain, eyes, it all starts to go astray, not to understand what is happening, and the body feels the effect of intoxication. It’s like some harmful substance has got inside us. And we begin to sweat, we are rocked, this effect occurs. For Oculus, Vive, the recommended frame rate is 90 frames per second for both eyes. That is, we, accordingly, have a camera for the right, a camera for the left eye, together this is approximately 180 frames per second. There are algorithms there,
And for this you need a powerful graphics card. At 90 frames, in principle, everything is fine, it does not cradle. If a person walks on his own, that is, we take, for example, Vive, he has a large tracking area, we can directly put on a helmet, take the joysticks and go. 3 by 3 meters you can walk freely, and there will be no motion sickness. Perhaps there will be some discomfort due to the fact that the screen resolution will not be very high, while pixels due to lenses can still be seen. But there will be a problem when we begin to experience acceleration, any acceleration. For example, we are standing on some platform, it will begin to rotate, and our camera will also begin to rotate. Or if some craftsman takes it and decides to give the effect of a shaking camera in an explosion. That is, we have a camera, yes, and we will think that this is something with our head. It puts up right away. We even coined the term which we use among ourselves - "vestibular shock". If you grab it, then after that it is better to remove the helmet, because you can not get rid of it in the helmet. That's all, the vestibular stroke has passed, we rest for half an hour. Only after that we can put on the helmet again and continue. If you continue, then fatigue will accumulate very quickly and after that the rejection of virtual reality will begin. I don’t feel like going back there because the body was bad.
A.K .: Clear business. We are still animals, we have some kind of conditioned reflexes.
MP: Yes. This point must not be passed. Before it is possible, after - no.
AK: That is, developing games for VR is a very gentle process?
DT: A lot of subtleties need to be taken into account. And the first thing to start with is how the player will move and feel in this virtual space. The issue of movement is very acute.
For example, if you say: “Here, for example, we have a shooter, and we move from one shelter to another. What could be the solution here? ” In a computer game, of course, a joystick or keyboard, and now we have come to the right place. Here we are faced with the fact that we must find a new way to move. What will it be? Teleportation is often used. That is, I point to this point and find myself there. But it breaks the dive. How is it, I took and jumped? It's not as cool as kicking. But it turns out that the alternative is even worse, because if we point to the point and the game itself drags us there, then in one moment and that’s all - you will begin to get sick. The feeling that you were captured and led.
MP .: There is acceleration. It was 0, and then the speed appeared. This is acceleration.
D.T .:And the one that a person does not control. And it immediately causes nauseous reflexes, and it's terrible. What options? You can move around, there is a lever, we say that we are so paralyzed in a wheelchair, and we move the lever and go forward. Also not that, neither are legs. In general, the search is still ongoing. The question of how to create the illusion of a huge space in a limited space is still being addressed.
A.K .: It turns out interesting. That is, perhaps, all my problems in virtual reality, which I spoke about before, were not connected with hard, but with software?
DT: Yes, of course.
A.K .: So, were the games fig?
It is possible that all the games that I saw were, firstly, quite simple. So far I have not seen directly super complex games. I saw them, if only it was already a well-known project, they attached a VR around it and fly in the same War Thunder, but in a helmet, for example.
And all the projects that I saw were very simple. I would even say they are more fun than games. They reminded me of the software that they originally released ... Remember, when the mod for this direct control went, all these PS Move, Kinect, and so on. Very similar to the primary software for Kinect. The idea seems to be great, but I don’t want to play. Question: Why do you want to play VR Invaders?
M.P .:How did VR games evolve? At the beginning and now, too, games come out as sensations, like demo scenes. We want to feel what it is like when dinosaurs are around us. And what is it when there is a Sci-Fi world around us. And we don’t want to play for long, really. We just bought a helmet. We want to try as many of these experiences as possible. But what if you immerse yourself in cages for sharks? For 5 minutes we want to see a lot of different things. That is, as in such a game - RPG, put on clothes, count statistics - this we do not want to do. We want a wow effect. Therefore, the games come out so short. The gameplay in them is usually either practically absent, or some kind of minimal. They usually do not have any passage as such. You played once, then launched the game, and the same thing. Such games come out, they are in demand, because people want to get familiar with technology. They don’t know yet whether they want to dive deep into it or not.
After modern VR games, in a few years there will be solid games in which we will play longer, make decisions based on how we played the last time. That is, several sessions in a row.
Now we are doing VR Invaders for transition mode. You can come in and play fast. In the style of such a party mode, at a party everyone enters, plays, receives some points and after that transfers to the next one. We also have a plot. We permeate those missions, tasks, levels that are in the game, with some plot. We tell it to the player and plunge deep into the universe that was created in the game. And this is the main difference that we are doing the game on both fronts. That is, to the old front, where only the wow effect is needed, and to the new one, where more is needed. Where you want to dive, where you want to play the game. This is for those who once bought a helmet, got a wow effect and now they want to: “Let's get to the next stage.”
D.T .:I would compare it so that we have an immersion in the film “5th Element” (conditionally, the plot is not the same), which you can watch until the end once, and then you can replay one shootout with aliens, another shootout and try to perform as best as possible and more spectacular.
MP .: Also for the party mode is suitable, everyone is trying to stuff as many points as possible.
A.K .: And now in simple words. Here I put on a helmet. What's happening?
DT: What is the game about?
AK: This is all very cool about the transition period. I will remember this very cool moment. But in general, what is this, what kind of genre?
D.T .:We have a shooter, shooting range. Robotic drones fly in large numbers, you shoot them with a gun, they shoot at you, block yourself with an energy shield, block bullets. The gun can switch to different modes - shoot with plasma, machine-gun line up, mow everyone with a laser. Different levels, different enemies, bosses and all this is strung on a single plot thread. The gameplay is this: I see the enemy, shoot, defend, shoot the next.
MP: But there is an exceptional feature: that which we cannot experience in real life, in virtual we can.
A.K .: What, to die?
MP: You can shoot at you, by the way. You die. What could not be done in any footer, the gun does not turn around, it is attached to the screen, and here ...
D.T .:And people wanted this. They asked: “Why am I shooting and not dying?” I had to do it.
MP: Yes. All honestly. In whom he got killed him. There is a time dilation, but we control it. It is integrated into the gameplay in its entirety. We press a special button on the shield, our time slows down 10 times, and here we are in the matrix. We can lean back, bullets will fly over us, and we will simply admire how cool it is. It is necessary that someone supported from behind, because standing like Neo will be difficult, but possible. And the player moves freely. We dodge bullets, we can move away, we can slow down time and just watch how it flew.
A.K .:You have noticed that there are some genres in which periodically decline times give way to renaissance times. There is a wonderful genre called Tire. In the 1980s, there was dawn in the slot machines, and then decline, everyone switched to home consoles. Then came all kinds of pistols, American Laser Games, all kinds of offices. A CD-ROM appeared and real films could be shot. How people then wondered 15 years ago: “Wow! It’s just like in a movie! ” Now finally shooting ranges have grown to first-person shooters. Class!
Here, by the way, we were asked before, how long can we wait for the appearance of VR in online games? It meant complex online games like MMO, which we almost started talking about. Do you think it's possible to sit in a 15-hour raid in VR?
D.T .:Technology will become cheaper, virtual reality goggles and all these settings will become more accessible, thus the market will become larger. Different people will want to play, and they have their own requests, their interests, and gradually the developers will think: “Hmm, we can’t just do a shooter, there are already a lot of them. We need to take something new. For example, we have players in online games. Well, we will make a cool product for them, and then they will start to think, attract a team, build this big project. ” I am sure that the time of MMO in virtual reality will come. Before that, there is still a lot to do, but I think in 5-7 years we will see the first cool product.
M.P .:Yes, here you need to take into account the development time and the speed of development of devices, because the development of an MMO usually takes from two years, and sometimes 3-4, maybe even 5, if some kind of unfinished construction. And how did the devices step over the last year only?
AK .: For example, Oculus has changed? It somehow happened to me that I kept them all in turn, starting from the very first iteration. Heaven and earth. But the pixels are still different.
MP: And what to do, how to make a game? That is, we plan our long-term construction for 2-3 years, and during this time we got other helmets, other technologies. What to do?
DT: Or, for example, the whole body is scanned and it is known exactly how you moved your finger, how you tilted your head. Already it is necessary to think up everything differently.
M.P .:And we have gameplay tailored to the fact that we hold the joysticks.
A.K .: Then let us again take a little distraction from the games. If we have already started talking about technology, then let's talk about technology. You are gentlemen developers. What is the most technological thing now? What do you need to develop for now, first of all?
MP: Of course, under VR.
DT .: You can specify within the VR.
A.K .: Yes. Under Oculus, under Sony, for example, or maybe immediately switch to Vive, which technically looks the most advanced?
MP: Technically, developing now doesn’t really matter for what.
A.K .: What is your platform?
M.P .:We support both Oculus and Vive. For the PlayStation, we currently do not, but who knows - maybe. From the point of view of tracking, if you consider just two days ago (in principle, quite a long time ago for the VR industry).
DT: Two days ago, wireless helmets were not yet announced.
MP: Yes. Was Vive like that? We have a helmet, like this one, such a cable is attached to it from the back, this cable goes to the computer, it is quite long. We have two joysticks and two boxes that track. We put them in the corners of the room.
AK: They still need to be configured.
MP: It is very easy.
AK: It took us an hour and a half.
M.P .:There are features, but it's pretty easy. Maybe it’s just that it’s unusual, it’s not clear what’s what and why. And when you already understand, by setting up Vive, setting up Oculus - everything is already clear, everything is familiar. These boxes carry out tracking. We move inside this virtual reality, hold joysticks and are free to walk around our area, which has become a tracking zone. A few days ago it was still impossible to pre-order such joysticks for Oculus, which allow you to track the position of the hands. Vive already had them, but Oculus did not. Oculus had a regular X-Box joystick. But now Oculus has almost caught up. That is, there the tracking zone may be slightly smaller. We need to look at the specification of how they ended up doing it. But we can already walk around the room, interact with objects, like Vive. But a day or two ago, Vive or some other development company, reported that a wireless device had appeared. That is, the battery is put in your pocket ...
AK: Progress is faster than development.
MP: Yes. This increases the tracking area more, because now we are not limited by the wire, that is, we can go a lot ... I suppose that after a while the same will appear in Oculus, and then in PlayStation. Accordingly, devices as such offer us experience to walk, plus interact with the virtual world using joysticks. Which specific device we use, in principle, does not matter from the point of view of the developer. There are nuances in terms of the software API, how we can interact with it, but in terms of gameplay - the same thing.
D.T .:Because these guys who make iron are interested in making it possible to configure the game for their device as easily as possible. So the whole market interacts with each other.
AK: What, in your opinion, is there any good from the game for virtual reality? And preferably not some franchises. It's cool, of course, to ride a helmet in Forza Motorsport. But maybe there is something special, exclusive? While I was struck by a serious game, half online, under PlayStation VR, from Ubisoft - Eagle Flight. This is such a hurricane action, where one after another the eagles fly over Paris.
Absolutely schizophrenic idea, but due to the fact that they greatly simplified the schedule and wildly cut the speed there, it looks just amazing, in my opinion.
M.P .:They cut off the schedule on purpose.
A.K .: Yes. This is my favorite so far. Do you have any special exclusives?
DT: I am most often interested in rather small projects. I really liked the virtual museum of fine arts. I have played. There is an exposition, several halls, you can walk, watch. At the same time, if you stare at some Venus directly on her naked body like this nose to nose, no one will say a word, because there is no one around.
MP: But, by the way, there is a render on the monitor, keep in mind.
A.K .: Young man, move away from the statue.
D.T .:And at the same time, it’s real as a museum of the future, because you approach the exhibit, and its description appears from the air. He moved away from the exhibit - there is no description, nothing spoils the view, a feeling of luxurious immersion and close contact with art is created. Wanted - put one statue under the snow. Snow goes. To organize this in the museum, you need a lot of money. And here everyone gets personal feelings, you are comfortable, you are not pushing with anyone. And all this is aesthetically and pleasantly done. The man just did a thesis, and I get great pleasure from the game.
Or you can get inside Van Gogh’s paintings, a space created in the style of his drawings, where you can look out the window and see the starry sky exactly as he painted, or Van Gogh himself, where he sits exactly as on his self-portrait. Things that move you not just into another space, but into otherwise created spaces, really captivate me.
MP: I have a more technical approach. I like the game, it is available on Steam, called ModeBox.
Its essence is that we have a virtual environment. We take a palette, we have cubes there, all kinds of triangles, pits, wheels, mechanisms, various switches, switches, anything, even a gun there, a bat, a racket - whatever. We take them and start collecting anything on stage. It is like a constructor. It develops the imagination very well. Because we are used to the fact that we have a Lego constructor or some other one, and we can assemble our machine from them and we are limited in choosing: a) the laws of physics that we have here, because the machine will always fall down; b) the set of cubes, their size, which we have. Here we want a small cube - please, how in Minecraft we can assemble a small wall. And then we say: "No, we need a large size of ten 10-story houses." Opa - a cube. Rose windows were placed in the right place, something else, some ladders did. They took, pulled, for example, mobs. There are even ready-made mobs so that you can make your own games. They are simple, but it is very entertaining. Put them in the right places. Took, made something like a hangar with a weapon. They hung right, put all these guns. And then we launch our world. That is, at first he has no physics, nothing. We turned it on, and it came to life. That is, physics worked, mobs began to move, for example. And now we come, we can teleport, that is, all the chips from other games are not implemented there. They are not implemented, maybe something is simple, but they are all there, they can all be combined. We took weapons, took the second, and we are in our own level, which we just made and can immediately play the game. Awesome! This is the constructor,
From the point of view of drawing there is still a wonderful program TileBrush.
DT: The most bought, in my opinion, now.
MP: It's just amazing there. Draw in 3D using glowing lines. There are different paints, colors, but the picture is obtained in 3D. It is bewitching.
DT: Almost a new form of art. This is not a sculpture, not a painting, but somewhere in the middle when you really draw a volume image.
A.K .:Class! Listen, let's talk about this now. There is a slippery conceptual path and many still do not even know that these are completely different things. Let's talk about the difference between VR and AR. For those who don’t know, VR is virtual reality, and AR is augmented reality. The fact is that Pokemon Go, known to everyone and loved by everyone, is nothing more than a game with augmented reality.
DT: Specifically, the element of augmented reality is simple there, but it really is ...
MP:Yes. Well, what element? You point and see Pokemon there. It seems to me, no offense to the usual virtual reality, which now exists, that AR in this sense is even more promising. Look, when Pokemon Go came out, everyone said: “Ah! Everything, the whole world is crazy. That's what augmented reality was for - to catch Pikachu. What the hell? ” But it’s not bullshit, because we know that in Pokemon Go the same databases were used, which at one time were collected in Ingress. This game is very many years old, and quite adult uncles, all kinds of urbanists, people with special hobbies have been playing it.
So I was catching a little Pokemon around the office. I walk past the office of the CSTO headquarters, which has a historical, but, unfortunately, very poorly run-down fence, I bring it to this fence, and he writes to me: Statue "Worker and soldier", such and such a year, sculptor such and such, architect such and such. " I was directly amazed! I imagined that “Here it is, finally, I’ll come to the forest, look at this tree, and he will write me an“ alder ”.” After all, they still say, but no one knows what this stupid alder looks like. Finally, we all get smarter. What do you think? What prospects may be hidden behind this, and why, for example, do not you want in AR?
DT: We want.
MP: We want. We do not mind.
A.K .: Mobilochki, for example.
DT: Hands would reach .
M.P .:We have a very important project now and need to be completed. After that we will watch. From the point of view of the devices themselves, we have Hololens from Microsoft.
MP .: We tested it, tried to develop a little bit under it, watching the platform and its capabilities. All in all, my opinion is that VR and AR are being separated just now. A little later it will not make sense to separate them.
What is a VR helmet? We have lenses. Inside there is a monitor. He makes a picture. In the case of virtual reality helmets, the monitor is opaque. In the case of devices of additional reality, that is, like Microsoft Hololens, the monitor is transparent. And if we request parts on the Hololens monitor, we don’t see anything through them. That is, we have an object, it is now transparent, but ideally opaque in general. In Hololens, we have areas that the screen does not paint over, that is, the screen there is not very large, but in the future the screen will completely cover our vision. And this means that if the screen is completely covered by our vision, and we made it completely opaque, then we are immersed in VR. We clear a small hole in it, we see the real world, and we are already in augmented reality. But there is still not enough tracking environment. In the case of VR, we have helmet tracking using sensors, but there is no tracking of our environment, and in the case of Microsoft Hololens, it constantly scans the surrounding area with the built-in Kinect and builds three-dimensional geometry of things that are around us. It’s approximate, but it’s enough to go beyond the wall and we don’t see any object that we left there, because we already went behind the wall. If we complement the helmets of virtual reality with a device that will track objects around and make the screens transparent, then we get the synthesis. but it is enough to go beyond the wall and we don’t see any object that we left there, because we have already gone behind the wall. If we complement the helmets of virtual reality with a device that will track objects around and make the screens transparent, then we get the synthesis. but it is enough to go beyond the wall and we don’t see any object that we left there, because we have already gone behind the wall. If we complement the helmets of virtual reality with a device that will track objects around and make the screens transparent, then we get the synthesis.
AK: In short, all these conceptual things are not as important as we understood. Although, on the other hand ...
MP: Yes. Some time is still important, but soon, I believe, will not be.
AK: So, with what all this conversation began: why is virtual reality good and augmented not so good? After Google Glass has been canceled. Type they say: “Here, a promising development, now all of them will be,” and then: “No, you know, something has not entered.” I even understand why it didn’t. She didn’t manage to spread much in our country, and somewhere abroad, especially in California, people sometimes came across. You go into the elevator, and with you a man comes in. And you go, and he is in those eyes. You look at him and think: “What if you are shooting me now? Or do you paint on my horns? ”
MP: The problem was not in AR, but in what he was shooting.
AK .: In humans, as usual. Human factor.
MP: He shot everything. They had such a chip that they could record everything. Everything is always recorded and sent to the server, where then everything can be reviewed and the sound as well. It turns out that this is such a spy tool, and not an AR tool.
AK: And the streamers were delighted, probably. Especially those who like 7 hours to stream something.
Now we have a different question. What are the features of design and in particular game design when you develop virtual reality games? We said that 90 FPS should be a minimum, and with the graphics it doesn’t matter anymore. We talked about the fact that there is no need to shake, in no case. What other things? Could VR be a limitation on the duration of a session? Although you do not agree with this at all. I’m all trying this "Sick", and you: "No."
MP .: We are not sick.
D.T .:It will be better if the duration of the session is shorter. We must rely on everyone to play comfortably. Accordingly, if a person is able to withstand an hour or two in virtual reality, this does not mean that the rest must be tortured. Enough for 10-15 minutes to get a complete impression. As for the design, then this is if we solved the issue with the movement somehow.
The second important thing that is only in virtual reality games is tactile sensations. So that, for example, we think when choosing a weapon how to make it in our game. For example, to make a large machine - it is too light. You drive them and you don’t feel the buzz. It’s like Thompson, it’s kind of like, yes, you clamped the trigger and shoot, but you don’t believe it, it doesn’t turn on something on the underbody, it says that everything is fake. And the gun, it’s authentic. That is, they are heavier than the Vive or Oculus joystick, but it is close enough in weight to believe in it. And the trembling when he shoots is also very important.
It is important that what the player interacts the most with is reliable. Then immersion takes place, and only then is everything perceived differently. Further, you can even make the same design that you usually do in computer games or console, but if you add this tactility there successfully, then for a person it will be a new experience.
MP: I agree 100%.
D.T .:Then I'll tell you. You can think about the fact that the game can take place in the entire sphere around the player. Perhaps it is necessary to pay his attention to what is happening behind, what is happening in front, from the sides. In fact, a person thinks two-dimensionally and it is difficult for him to navigate in 3D-space. Therefore, an important design element is not to disperse the attention of the player too much. If the events will occur in front, behind, side - this is too much. You need to think about how you will explain to the player where his attention is now required. When he looks into the monitor, he sees everything that is happening. In virtual reality, he sees only a part.
M.P .:The viewing angle in VR helmets is now quite small. Not the one that we see in reality is much narrower. Therefore, it seems to us that if we make our gameplay 180 degrees, I can see everything here, then there are no problems. And then it turns out that you need to twist your head. We look here, but here we do not see the enemy. So, you need to make some kind of notification to the player: “Turn there, look. There is an enemy. ” There is a problem with the user interface. What are we usually used to in games, in shooters? An arrow appears at the edge of the screen. Type: "Look there." Oh, look there. The strelochka moved and aimed at the enemy. You can do this in virtual reality, but the question immediately arises: at what distance from the player should I put the UI element? At a distance of a meter? In principle, a comfortable distance.
Next question. We come to some kind of fence, just to the wall. Do we still have to draw this UI element at a distance of a meter? We look at the wall, we can technically draw the fact that the UI element will be rendered ... in order to focus on it, the eyes will have to lean at a certain angle at a distance of a meter, and the wall at a distance of 10 centimeters. And then his head begins to strain a little, that something is wrong here. Of course, we can always try to draw it in the nearest object, but this is another. We need to look for options, how can we transfer the UI to which we are accustomed to a virtual environment, and in most cases it does not solve.
Another example. "Iron Man" did this to himself cool, he has a helmet, these inscriptions are all sorts everywhere. They are close to him here. If they are close, directly close at all - try to focus on the palm that is nearby. They are not visible simply. Good.
So, the iron man thought and took them a little further away, not as shown in the video. Well, here they are.
Now, if they are at such a distance, then just try to glance over - for example, here is a streak of life, and there are enemies. Accordingly, when we play on the monitor, then everything is flat, at the same distance, and we see at the same time the lives of almost the enemies themselves. But here we need to refocus directly on another object, that is, for the eyes this action is more complicated. I do not want to do it, it starts to strain. Plus, all people have a different radius, how much they see in the helmet of virtual reality. Someone’s eyes are located a little further, someone’s slightly closer, and due to this, he sees either a larger display or less. It is never known how accurately the player sees the display. Where then should he position the interface? You can, of course, calibrate for each player - also does not fit, because today we put on the helmet like this, today like that, today, and every time he swims. And if the elements are tied to a specific point, then there will be discomfort. We sharply turned our heads, our helmet moved a little bit, in the picture as a whole it does not affect in any way, but we also went to the interfaces. Inconveniently.
A.K .: Class! It turns out that there are so many nuances that this is the development of Eldorado, everything is reinvented again, you learn to walk again.
DT: The era of the initial filling with capital, when not everything is torn up and lying around just here - take it anywhere, here's the rich ...
AK: Take it, do your own, take it, do your quest there.
By the way, in Minecraft, in quests, stories, let's talk about a very popular topic now - the use of virtual reality in addition to games, but it is also possible with game mechanics. The only thing I’ll say right away: we won’t talk about porn, although this is a very interesting area of application, an extremely unusual feeling. I just remember when I was at E3 (the largest exhibition of the year, which takes place in Los Angeles in the summer), there was the Naughty America booth - this is such a special developer, a special studio that makes films for just this. You know, people came out with very glass eyes. There, firstly, the queue was more than the new Halo, and secondly, people came out so glazed as if they were doing something very important and they were interrupted at some point. That is, it clearly works.
M.P .:In general, when we shoot video in 360, there is a problem with the director. Where should he stand? Where to stand for the operator? Where to place the lighting?
AK: This is all the era of drones will have to decide.
D.T .: Theater. We return to the theater. Rehearsed in advance ...
MP: That is, everything needs to be rehearsed in advance? What about the lighting? In the theater, one way or another, light can be supplied from at least one side. And then ...
A.K .: We have such an Art Deco theater, when a stage worker walks right around the stage during a performance, and this is considered normal.
MP: As an option.
A.K .:Returning to pornography ... Not really. Look, I was just struck by the video now, and not only I, in my opinion, 0.5 million people on the Internet either. Russian Railways somewhere inside, without announcing at all, made a trackman simulator. This was really done in order to train trackmen. It is much easier to run it for 10 hours through the simulator than to work with it on the ground, although the work is quite responsible and difficult. What do you all think about this?
D.T .: Gorgeous . I think it's gorgeous. This is the case with museums. Some things become much cheaper to do using virtual reality. Cheaper, safer, more comfortable for everyone. Wonderful. Let there be more such initiatives, it seems to me.
M.P .:I would like to add here in terms of educational goals for schoolchildren. There is a program, it’s like a demonstration of the possibilities, if you bought a helmet, then put it on, see what you can do in general in a virtual environment. And there are cool demos, very well made. And one of them is with our solar system. In the middle of the sun, we find ourselves close to it. Planets revolve around him. They do not spin at real distances. That is, the proportions are more or less observed and the sizes of the planets are observed.
DT: Relative to each other.
M.P .:Yes. And we can go up to Jupiter, take it with the joystick - Jupiter, big. Thrown in the sun. They approached the earth. Where is the earth? Where is the earth? She is hiding between the pixels. Here she is. Took her. Here it is, Earth. Thrown in the sun. And we remember for life that Jupiter is large compared to Earth and how much larger it is. Not a single textbook, not a single illustration will ever give us such an immersion and such a feeling. A tactile sensation of size, until we, the planets, really took and threw in the Sun.
Any other things that are visualized and that have some analogues in 3D, if you can try to interact with them, if you can really see them, how they were created, even this simulator for Russian Railways. Once we saw that we, aha, have a box, it is located at such and such a distance from the railway - a person remembered all the distances, remembered the relative position. The more elements we consider there, the more he will perceive them and the easier it will be for him later in a real place.
For example, how else can this be used? We have a mass event for several million people, for example, at the stadium. Thousands of people gather there.
AK: I came up with a riot police simulator. Excellent.
MP: As an option.
A.K .:Where are you going ?! Alcohol is not allowed with you. This. Class!
MP: Well, not really. On the other hand, we have a giant stadium.
DT .: They do not always like that.
A.K .: And not all.
M.P .:And we need to train the staff that we invite to this event. And he generally does not know what kind of stadium it is, what moves there are, where, how. We can show him a million cards, different sections, we can show him that "You will be standing here, top view." But what if a person does not perceive cards? He didn’t understand anything. And some escape routes, for example, so that you can immediately respond in an emergency, any logistic processes that people go through here, then we redirect the flow here, they are all in words. And if we create a virtual scene in 3D, then a person puts on a helmet: “A, here. I will stand next to a large wall of green. Everything, I remember. Yeah, there will be a button. Yeah, do not touch this one, for example. I also understood. ” That's all, he already understood his tasks, what he would need to do. “Ways of evacuation. A, here the ladder passes. So, I myself can try to go through it using, for example, the teleportation mode in a virtual environment. I basically remembered. ” Awesome. People learned literally in just a matter of minutes. Actually, without going to the object itself, they realized what, how, what. Awesome.
A.K .: Class! And so in everything.
DT: If earlier it was said that a picture is worth 1000 words, now we can say that one immersion in virtual reality costs 1000 pictures.
AK: Look, we have a discussion in the comments, I would even say. The discussion is strongly said, but, nevertheless, people are discussing, people are saying that the coolest version of the solution with the interface, in their opinion, is how military pilots in a helmet do it. But then another person corrects him, says: “It's good there, but the military pilot nevertheless looks at one point at the very least, but here you have to turn his head”
D.T .:It depends on the rules of the game. And so, from the cool moments of the interfaces, just a thing that has pleased recently ... For example, how to get out of the game? Not that he really needs VR right now. You just take off your helmet and are no longer in the game. But there are dudes (I forgot what kind of project), they have a humorous project. You take a hot dog, bite off it once, and he offers you: "Are you sure you want to go out?" Bite off the second, eat a hot dog - here you are. Another approach at all.
MP: Or shot himself - the mission is over. We also have this option.
A.K .: It’s very good to shoot yourself, but what will Mizulin say about this?
“Let's talk more about development, about technical details.” I am asked what programming language is used. You see, we have classic questions. It's just that we have this fourth or fifth even a Technostream on the topic of video games, and there always appears a group of people or it is the same person who says, “Guys, I know that games are very cool, I know that programming languages are needed teach. So which ones? ” And everyone says differently, the most important thing, everyone has different ways.
MP: You don’t need to learn programming languages to start.
DT: This is true.
AK: And this again, for a second, says the leading virtual reality programmer at Mail.Ru Group.
MP: Everything is very simple.
D.T .:Design also can not be studied.
MP: Yes, everything is very real simple. You need to go to the Unreal Engine 4 website, download it for free. True, with registration, but without SMS, put it on, create a new project, select VR, and there is already a ready-made template.
DT: And here you are a VR developer.
MP: Yes. That's it, the VR project has been created. Press the play button. There you need to connect the device, configure it. This is not difficult. Next, next, next, there are all graphical installers, everything is easy in this regard. We are launching our first VR project. We tried something in it, did it, looked like it already has this functionality, basic things.
Then, if we want to add our own art, look at some kind of three-dimensional object that we downloaded online in VR. Suppose we have such a 3D model; importing it into the engine is not difficult. We take this 3D model, import it, it supports the FBX format (this is so common for the 3D model). If you need a three-dimensional editor to convert from some other, then you can use a blender. It is also free and available on Steam. Import the engine, apply textures, look at a couple of tutorials, of course, to familiarize yourself with the functionality. We launch Play, and here is our three-dimensional model inside. Everything, we looked.
Now we want to force, for example, that a ball from above is spawned (appears) and falls down, according to the laws of physics. Also not a question. We create this three-dimensional ball (you can just take the sphere, paint it in some color), make blueprint on it (this is such a special element in Unreal Engine) and then use the visual programming to connect the blocks. That is, we have Begin Play, it appeared when the object was created. We add that we want to give him some kind of physical impulse. Add momentum. In this direction the impulse was added - everything, play, and it flies away.
AK .: And now you are Unreal-developer.
M.P .:VR Unreal Engine developer. That is, using blueprint, you can build a large project. For example, there are complaints that blueprint performance is not very high. Yes, there is such a nuance. But it all depends on what kind of gameplay we are building. If our gameplay is strongly tied to any kind of network interaction and we have a lot of logic with all kinds of resources, any complicated craft and other things, then on the “pluses” of Unreal Engine. Therefore, if we make a game in the programming language, then we will need to learn C ++ and write on it. Complex things are best done on the pros. But if we don’t have anything potentially complicated, we don’t iterate through the frame for each frame 1000 times over thousands of objects - then it makes no sense. That is, blueprint is quite productive, sufficient speed.
A.K .:As one of our past guests voiced: “Yes, then learn languages. Learn Unity first. Languages will come later. ”
Then a straightforward man came up with a serious question: “Have you already voiced the policies of Mail.Ru Group and VR, integration with Game Center on the stream?” In short, guys, all this, of course, sounds much simpler. What is the policy? Mail.Ru Group is a large company, developer, publisher, game operator and so on. Naturally, looking at one of the most promising areas of development in our time - on VR. Accordingly, the guys - Maxim and Dmitry - are people who are literally at the head of this very echelon, racing ahead of our company. Therefore, if their project is very cool, then I think that the policy of Mail.Ru Group will only expand with regard to VR.
M.P .:He goes to the Steam Oculus Store. This is announced.
A.K .: And the date?
MP: This year.
A.K .: Class. Well, well, I guess I think it’s time for us to get started today, as we are running out of time. They answered interesting questions like ... You know, when people have a discussion without us, as I understand it, our mission has already been completed.
MP: But what about? If we stop the stream, then their discussion will end. We must keep them in check.
A.K .:Yes, you have to keep it. Well? Let's get jokes then. In fact, thank you very much. Today we announced the main things about VR, finally told people how VR differs from AR. Especially nothing. In a VR helmet, you can draw eyes like this here. By the way, super-entertainment is now in the West. They are being sold along with Oculus, most of all the second accessory, which is there, is stickers with all kinds of eyes. And someone walks around the room with such eyes. I also recommend you. Then all of you will run past you. And it’s so scary when someone waves their hands.
So, today we had absolutely wonderful guys - Maxim Pestun and Dmitry Trubitsyn. This is a leading VR programmer at Mail.Ru Group and a leading VR designer. That is, as we found out today, both programming and VR design are a completely new territory, terra incognita. These people are now opening us a new continent, watching, experiencing and putting in some kind of experience. Therefore, I wish you guys good luck.
VR Invaders is very cool. This may be a bad idea to scold the company's own games, but this is one of the few games that you really launch right away, and it’s not like this: “Well, well, now we’ll figure out where it’s cool,” but like that: “Wow! Eprst! ” This is a cool thing, I very much wish you success in working on it.