Post-answer on whether Samsung really “loves” its customers
On November 24, 2010 on Habré, in a blog for mobile application developers, a post was published titled How Samsung Apps “loves” its customers , in which a person under the nickname natuzzi and at the same time one of the members of the Freeje application development team complained about our company’s policy regarding VoIP services on the bada platform.
The opinions of users were divided, there were comments both in support of the words natuzzi, and vice versa, the reason for discussion was rather serious, and therefore we decided to give an answer in a detailed form, thus placing dots over i in this question by this post.
So, let's first determine the essence of the claims that have been made to Samsung and its policies regarding its bada mobile platform. I will take opinions both from comments and from the post itself, since the dialogue at the moment certainly happens not so much with the user natuzzi, but with the habrasociety as a whole.
1. The application control service is incompetent and incorrectly regarded the Freeje application as a program that uses VoIP technology.
2. Inconsistency of the monetary policy between the user and the developers about Freeje team about it.
3. Engagement and protection of interests of “internal” operators.
4. Infringement of developers in comparison with other platforms and operating systems.
5. "Lag" from other manufacturers of mobile devices and platforms.
6. Inability to pursue the same policy in all areas of its activity, and control applications in Java.
So, this seems to be all the main points that we have to answer today. Now let's define the terms and their scope, as is customary in a serious conversation.
In fact, I've been writing in detail about this platform for a relatively long time . But specifically now we are interested in this:
Bada is positioned as a platform (in this context, the OS), which should have at the same time wide functionality comparable to smartphones in their traditional sense, and ease of use for an ordinary user who has both the need for this functionality and not having time / desire for independent study of all the intricacies of certain applications, the nuances associated with their use, and so on.
As simple as possible, everything should be - the interface, the functionality of the programs, their choice, payment for certain services.
Of course, this concept imposes certain restrictions on program developers - the company, without going beyond the framework of the above, cannot afford the uncontrolled growth of the application base, which even an advanced user will easily be confused with, although this does not exclude alternative clients for any social networks, and so on - on the contrary, high-quality products with unique functionality (do not confuse with the various costs of their services) are extremely important for the company - in fact, this is the direct part of the phone.
If they understand the above concept, all kinds of support will be provided to developers, I also wrote about this here: HeroCraft Company: a look at the development of mobile applications from the inside [interview] .
It is extremely important in this matter to understand that the conversation is exclusively about bada OS, and not about anything else. Samsung is a manufacturer of devices on Android, and until recently on Symbyan and WM, which I think is known to all users of Habr. And speaking here about any restrictions in the rules for developers, I’m talking strictly about bada and its native applications (not java). It is important.
In general, I think that if we had a forum for lawyers, and not for workers in the IT sector and those adjacent to it, then we could perfectly debate what can be considered applications that provide services based on this technology, and what - not. But it so happened that a certain part of unbiased users believes that VoIP traffic does not have to be present along the entire length of the channel so that the program can be called using VoIP services.
To agree with them or not is the right of each individual user, but it is difficult to imagine that their opinion was somehow engaged on our part.
How does this program work? It's simple - the callback technology , long known and banned in many countries, is used:
Many countries have banned callback services, on the grounds that they are not licensed or regulated by their governments, and deprive telephone companies in many developing countries of revenue from international calls. People who provide or use callback services have argued that these telephone companies are often state monopolies that charge unjustifiably high prices for international calls. It may also be the only way of making calls to certain countries from others, for example, Israel from other Middle Eastern countries.
Other countries have sought to use technical means to prevent callback, by blocking the inbound and outbound calls made to and from DID numbers, or by disabling touch tone dialing. However, this is also overcome by the use of speed dial numbers, while others use these services by triggering callback via the Internet or SMS.
This decision is understandable and logical - business is trying to protect its rights, and this is a general rule for the capitalist world - it’s one thing when the program uses technology honestly, allowing the operator providing its channels to earn money if not by transmitting voice via GSM, but VoIP traffic, and another thing when the service is parasitic on the operator, without giving him this opportunity.
If you still do not understand, then the program Freeje works according to the following algorithm:
You want to call this or that subscriber => dial his phone number in the program => she sends an http-request to her server => you are called back by the GSM gateway and connected to the subscriber you need.
Thus, you pay exclusively to the developers of the program for the provided service, while the mobile operator does not have the right to take money from you for an incoming call within your home region, and only receives a “penny” for a short http request.
But let’s leave the honesty of this way of working on the conscience of developers, in the end, all that is not forbidden is allowed.
The answer was practically given above - firstly, there is not a word about VoIP traffic in the agreement with the developers, but there are agreed conditions on VoIP services that Freeje certainly uses. Site users wrote about this:
As I wrote above, the bada OS platform is aimed at the simplicity of its use by the end user, so the claims on this item are also not justified, especially since the agreement says everything is extremely simple and straightforward. The fact that the correspondence did not mention this in the first letter can be explained even by the banal surprise of such a situation for the application control service - why are the agreements written, and why they cannot be read carefully, especially if the application is going to be used for earnings?
Not true.
a) Samsung in its work with mobile operators and their subscribers simultaneously tries to simplify the work of the former (even at the very beginning of the development of the platform, it was announced that payment for various services would be possible not only using a bank card, but also directly from the subscriber’s account ), and provide the user with the most optimal prices for certain services.
Check the application prices at SamsungApps - part of the excellent applications is either fully or partially sponsored by the company, as a result of which the programs are either free or their cost does not exceed 50-100 rubles. If such prices are called the protection of the interests of “domestic operators”, I honestly don’t even know what to argue about this;
b) the user does not lose VoIP traffic, despite all the assurances of us in that post, the company’s developers are currently working with Skype , and their client will probably appear in version 1.2 quite soon, and in version 2.0 we can expect it practically with 100% certainty. As you can see, there is no mention of a repeat of the story with Apple, and the delayed release of the client for Skype has most likely organizational reasons than those offered to us by fans of conspiracy theories.
It’s also not true, the restriction is justified by the essence of the platform, and at the same time we are manufacturers of devices for other platforms where you will not encounter such “infringements”, simply because Samsung has no need for this - we try to provide fair working conditions to mobile operators at the same time and fair conditions to their subscribers using our devices.
As I wrote above, this cannot be called a lag. On the contrary, it is just a different application market, with its pros and cons. Do not forget how meticulous and competent our services are for their work, and if you do not believe us, you can talk with third-party developers - of course there are problems, but if the agreement is not violated, then surely any of them will say that in the end The result was achieved by both parties.
The fact is that this is not required - control is carried out only for native applications, which make up an integral part of the platform. If the user is able to independently figure out where and where to get the java application, then we have absolutely no complaints against him or the program developer. Is this not the best confirmation that all the exclamations about our venality and work for the sake of OPSOS are empty words?
Yes, we really do not allow developers under the bada OS platform to develop programs that use VoIP services. But this does not mean at all that we are depriving the right of users of our platform to use these services on our devices and are doing our best to cooperate with those who provide them according to generally accepted international standards - Skype. And it is in this that our love for our customers is expressed. Also, nothing prevents users of our mobile devices from using the Freeje application in its java version.
Thanks to all.
The opinions of users were divided, there were comments both in support of the words natuzzi, and vice versa, the reason for discussion was rather serious, and therefore we decided to give an answer in a detailed form, thus placing dots over i in this question by this post.
So, let's first determine the essence of the claims that have been made to Samsung and its policies regarding its bada mobile platform. I will take opinions both from comments and from the post itself, since the dialogue at the moment certainly happens not so much with the user natuzzi, but with the habrasociety as a whole.
Samsung is charged with the following points:
1. The application control service is incompetent and incorrectly regarded the Freeje application as a program that uses VoIP technology.
What kind of VoIP service did Samsung dream of? The application is an elementary callback! True, with quite attractive prices, Skype support and excellent quality.
2. Inconsistency of the monetary policy between the user and the developers about Freeje team about it.
3. Engagement and protection of interests of “internal” operators.
What “external” networks are we talking about? What are the interests of “internal” operators Samsung so zealously defends?
4. Infringement of developers in comparison with other platforms and operating systems.
5. "Lag" from other manufacturers of mobile devices and platforms.
6. Inability to pursue the same policy in all areas of its activity, and control applications in Java.
For some reason, Freeje is perfectly allowed on the App store, on the Android Market (Freeje lite). Also pending at Nokia Ovi, it works great on Windows Mobile.
And, by the way, the very first version of Java Me available on any phone with built-in Java support, including Samsung :-)
We modestly do not comment on the fact that VoIP applications have long had their doors open in the Appstore and Android Market and Nokia Ovi. But that's another story.
In general, draw conclusions, colleagues.
So, this seems to be all the main points that we have to answer today. Now let's define the terms and their scope, as is customary in a serious conversation.
Bada os
In fact, I've been writing in detail about this platform for a relatively long time . But specifically now we are interested in this:
Bada is positioned as a platform (in this context, the OS), which should have at the same time wide functionality comparable to smartphones in their traditional sense, and ease of use for an ordinary user who has both the need for this functionality and not having time / desire for independent study of all the intricacies of certain applications, the nuances associated with their use, and so on.
As simple as possible, everything should be - the interface, the functionality of the programs, their choice, payment for certain services.
Of course, this concept imposes certain restrictions on program developers - the company, without going beyond the framework of the above, cannot afford the uncontrolled growth of the application base, which even an advanced user will easily be confused with, although this does not exclude alternative clients for any social networks, and so on - on the contrary, high-quality products with unique functionality (do not confuse with the various costs of their services) are extremely important for the company - in fact, this is the direct part of the phone.
If they understand the above concept, all kinds of support will be provided to developers, I also wrote about this here: HeroCraft Company: a look at the development of mobile applications from the inside [interview] .
It is extremely important in this matter to understand that the conversation is exclusively about bada OS, and not about anything else. Samsung is a manufacturer of devices on Android, and until recently on Symbyan and WM, which I think is known to all users of Habr. And speaking here about any restrictions in the rules for developers, I’m talking strictly about bada and its native applications (not java). It is important.
VoIP
In general, I think that if we had a forum for lawyers, and not for workers in the IT sector and those adjacent to it, then we could perfectly debate what can be considered applications that provide services based on this technology, and what - not. But it so happened that a certain part of unbiased users believes that VoIP traffic does not have to be present along the entire length of the channel so that the program can be called using VoIP services.
The author does not understand a little what they are trying to explain to him in the comments and support for the Samsung. They do not just prohibit VoIP traffic, they prohibit any VoIP services on the operator’s networks (the idea was probably not just to prohibit VoIP, but to prohibit communication on the operator’s networks in principle), what the author does is use VoIP to make cheap calls, because in many countries, incoming calls are not charged or there is a significant discount. It does not matter that the connection itself is established using the HTTP callback.
Mobile operator network - yes, VoIP - there too. And I can explain the essence of the problem:
There is a phone that is connected to mobile operator A. There is a mobile operator B that pays mobile operator A when the subscriber of operator B calls the subscriber of operator A. Moreover, it pays by the minute. Those. Operator A earns a deny on every call from Network B. This is called interconnect. It is thanks to this interconnect that there are tariff plans where the subscriber is still paid extra for incoming calls.
Here you appear with your absolutely useful and good program Freeje. And operator A not only does not earn on an outgoing call of a subscriber, but also loses the opportunity to earn on an incoming call
To agree with them or not is the right of each individual user, but it is difficult to imagine that their opinion was somehow engaged on our part.
Freeje
How does this program work? It's simple - the callback technology , long known and banned in many countries, is used:
Many countries have banned callback services, on the grounds that they are not licensed or regulated by their governments, and deprive telephone companies in many developing countries of revenue from international calls. People who provide or use callback services have argued that these telephone companies are often state monopolies that charge unjustifiably high prices for international calls. It may also be the only way of making calls to certain countries from others, for example, Israel from other Middle Eastern countries.
Other countries have sought to use technical means to prevent callback, by blocking the inbound and outbound calls made to and from DID numbers, or by disabling touch tone dialing. However, this is also overcome by the use of speed dial numbers, while others use these services by triggering callback via the Internet or SMS.
This decision is understandable and logical - business is trying to protect its rights, and this is a general rule for the capitalist world - it’s one thing when the program uses technology honestly, allowing the operator providing its channels to earn money if not by transmitting voice via GSM, but VoIP traffic, and another thing when the service is parasitic on the operator, without giving him this opportunity.
If you still do not understand, then the program Freeje works according to the following algorithm:
You want to call this or that subscriber => dial his phone number in the program => she sends an http-request to her server => you are called back by the GSM gateway and connected to the subscriber you need.
Thus, you pay exclusively to the developers of the program for the provided service, while the mobile operator does not have the right to take money from you for an incoming call within your home region, and only receives a “penny” for a short http request.
But let’s leave the honesty of this way of working on the conscience of developers, in the end, all that is not forbidden is allowed.
Now you can answer directly to the claims themselves.
1. The application control service is incompetent and incorrectly regarded the Freeje application as a program that uses VoIP technology.
The answer was practically given above - firstly, there is not a word about VoIP traffic in the agreement with the developers, but there are agreed conditions on VoIP services that Freeje certainly uses. Site users wrote about this:
VoIP services! = VoIP traffic. The fact that you exploit the cheapness of incoming calls and start your own VoIP from yourself is included in their definition of a VoIP service. And it is absolutely legitimate.
2. The monetary policy between the user and the developers does not correspond to the Freeje team's perception of it
As I wrote above, the bada OS platform is aimed at the simplicity of its use by the end user, so the claims on this item are also not justified, especially since the agreement says everything is extremely simple and straightforward. The fact that the correspondence did not mention this in the first letter can be explained even by the banal surprise of such a situation for the application control service - why are the agreements written, and why they cannot be read carefully, especially if the application is going to be used for earnings?
3. Samsung’s commitment and the protection of the interests of “internal” operators.
Not true.
a) Samsung in its work with mobile operators and their subscribers simultaneously tries to simplify the work of the former (even at the very beginning of the development of the platform, it was announced that payment for various services would be possible not only using a bank card, but also directly from the subscriber’s account ), and provide the user with the most optimal prices for certain services.
Check the application prices at SamsungApps - part of the excellent applications is either fully or partially sponsored by the company, as a result of which the programs are either free or their cost does not exceed 50-100 rubles. If such prices are called the protection of the interests of “domestic operators”, I honestly don’t even know what to argue about this;
b) the user does not lose VoIP traffic, despite all the assurances of us in that post, the company’s developers are currently working with Skype , and their client will probably appear in version 1.2 quite soon, and in version 2.0 we can expect it practically with 100% certainty. As you can see, there is no mention of a repeat of the story with Apple, and the delayed release of the client for Skype has most likely organizational reasons than those offered to us by fans of conspiracy theories.
4. In infringement of developers in comparison with other platforms and operating systems.
It’s also not true, the restriction is justified by the essence of the platform, and at the same time we are manufacturers of devices for other platforms where you will not encounter such “infringements”, simply because Samsung has no need for this - we try to provide fair working conditions to mobile operators at the same time and fair conditions to their subscribers using our devices.
5. In the "lag" from other manufacturers of mobile devices and platforms.
As I wrote above, this cannot be called a lag. On the contrary, it is just a different application market, with its pros and cons. Do not forget how meticulous and competent our services are for their work, and if you do not believe us, you can talk with third-party developers - of course there are problems, but if the agreement is not violated, then surely any of them will say that in the end The result was achieved by both parties.
6. Inability to maintain the same policy in all areas of their activities, and control applications in Java.
The fact is that this is not required - control is carried out only for native applications, which make up an integral part of the platform. If the user is able to independently figure out where and where to get the java application, then we have absolutely no complaints against him or the program developer. Is this not the best confirmation that all the exclamations about our venality and work for the sake of OPSOS are empty words?
Summary
Yes, we really do not allow developers under the bada OS platform to develop programs that use VoIP services. But this does not mean at all that we are depriving the right of users of our platform to use these services on our devices and are doing our best to cooperate with those who provide them according to generally accepted international standards - Skype. And it is in this that our love for our customers is expressed. Also, nothing prevents users of our mobile devices from using the Freeje application in its java version.
Thanks to all.