Bill Gates and Steve Jobs: D5 Conference, Part 3

Original author: Amber Israelson, Ubiqus Reporting Inc.
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The traditional D5 conference in the California town of Carlsbad, 30 miles from San Diego, as usual, brought together leaders from leading technology companies. On May 30, conference organizers Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg conducted a historical interview in which the top officials of Microsoft and Apple, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, jointly participated.
This is the third part of the interview, read the first part here , the second - here , the interview video can be viewed here .


Kara swisherWe talked about the radical changes ahead of your companies.
Walt mossbergBut we still have the key elements of the interface are the mouse and icons. You talked about how big a bet was made on this in 1984, and how Windows followed. We still adhere to this approach. I would like to know if he will change.
Bill gatesTouch, ink, speech, vision, it all comes, but they are not a radical replacement. I think you underestimate the degree of evolution that has occurred. You just lived with this year after year. If we redirected you ten years ago, then when you returned, you would say: “Wow, a new ideology has appeared - this is search and tags.” Evolution is a very good thing. In fact, even during evolution, for example, when we made changes to Office, we always upset the balance. Specifically, in this case, I'm talking about the "Ribbon" (Ribbon). You always come across users who say, “Damn it, I have to spend time all the time to learn all these new products.” So there was a very fruitful evolution. But all these things related to the natural interface are revolutionary and will revolutionize the interface further.
Kara swisherSteve? I know you are working on something excellent, and we will soon see it.
Walt mossbergAnd you cannot tell about it.
Steve jobsRight
Walt mossbergBill shared all his secrets with us. You are not telling anything.
Steve jobsI know this is unfair. In fact, I think this is a very simple question. It's about how many really revolutionary things will be done on the PC in the next five years, and which ones on post-PC devices. There is a genuine temptation to focus on post-PC devices because they are a “clean whiteboard” and because these devices are more focused and because they don’t have a legacy of myriad applications running on a myriad markets.
Therefore, I think that we are waiting for a colossal revolution related to post-PC devices. The question is how much will be done with the PCs themselves. And I’m sure that Microsoft, like us, is working on really amazing things. But we are forced to hold our horses a little, because we have tens of millions - in our case, and hundreds of millions - of Bill, users who are already used to certain things. They do not need a car with six wheels. They like a four-wheel car. They do not want to steer with the handle, they like the steering wheel.
Therefore, as Bill has already said, in some cases you have to upgrade existing things, and in other cases you can make fundamental changes. I think that a radical rethinking will occur in the world of post-PC devices.
Kara swisherI will ask a more personal question. In just a minute, we will let the audience ask questions. What was greatest - I will not recall the famous moment with Barbara Walters and ask what tree you would like to be, but ...
Walt mossbergLet me say that she would like to be Barbara Walters.
Kara swisherNo, I would not want to. What was the biggest misunderstanding ... The
Steve jobscall.
Kara swisherThe call, right. Thanks Steve. I want to say that your relationship goes down in history. What was the biggest misunderstanding in your relationship? What could you recall now from many events?
Steve jobsWe have kept our wedding secret for over ten years now.
Kara swisherCanada. That trip to Canada.
[Laughter and applause]
Bill gatesI do not think that any of us have reason to complain. And I know that projects like the Mac project were just amazingly interesting, and we had to take risks. In that video, we look much younger.
Steve jobsRight
Kara swisherAt first, you look 12 years old.
Bill gatesSo I try to look now.
Steve jobsHe was twelve.
Bill gatesI enjoyed working together. I really miss some of those people. You know, in our industry, people come and go. It is wonderful when there is someone who has been from the very beginning, and is in the context of everything that happened. The industry is crazy about something new, you know that a successful company must move all the time and all that. It is very cool when there are people who have already experienced many such waves, and yet, when it's worth it, they find the strength to take risks and bring new things.
Walt mossbergOne last question, and we will pass the microphone to the audience.
Kara swisherNo, he hasn’t answered us yet ...
Walt mossbergI'm sorry?
Steve jobsI haven’t answered yet.
Walt mossbergOh, excuse me.
Kara swisherHe only talked about his secret wedding, so ...
Walt mossbergAh, I thought that was the answer.
Steve jobsNo, that was not my answer. You know, when Bill and I first met and worked together in those old days, we were always the youngest guys in the room. Each individually or together. I’m about six months older, but, in general, we are the same age. And now, when we work in our reputable companies, I don’t know how about you, but I am usually the oldest of all in the same room. That is why I am happy to be here.
Walt mossbergGlad to bring you this happiness. I am glad.
Steve jobsAnd, you know, I think of most of the things in life as the song of Bob Dylan or the Beatles, and in one of the Beatles songs there is such a line: “Our memories are longer than the road ahead of us”. And this is absolutely true in this case.
Kara swisherOh, lovely.
Walt mossbergDo you know that? I think that here you and I should put an end. Let's stop.
Kara swisherOh, I'm going to cry now.
Walt mossbergThanks.
Kara swisherMany thanks.
[Applause]
Kara swisherWow. Good. Now questions from the audience, I ask you
Walt mossbergQuestions. Can I have more light? Roger.
Roger: Roger McNami of Elevation Partners. Guys, that was awesome. Many thanks. We are facing big elections next year. I would like to know if there are any questions that are visible to you from your Silicon Valley, about which we should concentrate and effectively interact with the next president of the United States. That is, some common platform that we all share. Because, oddly enough, you did not seem to hear some of the things that are now being talked about everywhere, and I wonder what you think about all this.
Walt mossbergBill?
Bill gatesWell, of course, I would put education on the first number on this list.
Roger : Are there any technological solutions that could do something in this area, or ...
Bill gatesNot. Technology is providing more and more assistance, but the ways to evaluate teachers, improve them, set up schools, their expectations, all this does not boil down to bare technology. It is rather a question of what can be changed in the very structure of these institutions. There should be a broad discussion of the various paths in education.
Walt mossbergSteve?
Steve jobsGuys, we have quite big problems, and I believe that most of them are too serious for Silicon Valley to solve. Hope some of these will be resolved. I think we underestimate how much our industry depends on stability. We are experiencing a very long period of stability, and therefore we could focus on our technologies and grow our businesses, and we took this for granted.
One of the most interesting areas is our energy dependence. And a lot can be done here. I know about a lot of investments in this area. I don’t know if there are any results already, but big investments are being made in alternative forms of energy and, possibly, Silicon Valley will play its modest role here.
Kara swisherYou invest in this area in person or ...
Bill gatesPartly.
Kara swisherWhat can be a lot.
Bill gatesBillion another.
Walt mossbergSteve, are you investing in this area?
Steve jobsNot.
Kara swisherOnly Prius, and that’s it?
Steve jobsYes, just appreciating.
Walt mossbergYou please.
Don: Hi. Don Eklund, Sony Pictures. My question is, where is too much diversity present? During the discussion, it was already said that microprocessors are now very inexpensive, memory too, software is plentiful. But my life has become better due to the emergence of standards - programming standards, network standards. And, it seems to me that diversity has reached the point where it hinders the creation of integrating devices that everyone could appreciate. And will it not turn, as is the case with healthcare and public transport, into a genie that you can’t put back in a bottle? I would like to know your vision of this, is there still the possibility of creating integrating devices that could really simplify and enrich people's lives.
Walt mossbergSteve?
Steve jobsWell, I think Bill and I will agree here. No, I believe it is very difficult to limit imagination and innovation. I think that new, wonderful inventions will appear constantly. And I think that is what we have to put up with in order to get these innovations. We put up with the fact that innovation exacerbates this diversity.
Bill gatesAnd I think that the market is very good at allowing diversity where it is appropriate, and getting rid of it where it is not needed.
Steve jobsAnd again, admit there diversity some time later.
Bill gatesYes. Yes. I mean standards and all that. Internet standards, video formats and the like have a powerful impact. And therefore, I don’t see what can really get in the way of creating integrating devices. Of course, you know that there are many different approaches to wireless communications, but all this is in a very healthy condition. Each of them has its own merits. Some of them will eventually be consumed by others. I think that the industry has very well learned to develop and adhere to standards where innovations have more or less completed, and to focus efforts on areas for which it is not yet clear which approach will turn out to be the best.
Walt mossbergJesse
Jessie: Hi. I am Jesse Kornblat, HeadButler.com. Since you are no longer the youngest guys in this room, it may be appropriate to ask each of you about your legacy. Bill, even your most critical critics admit that your philanthropic activity is amazing, planetary in nature, and perhaps, if you go further in this direction, then overshadow everything that you have done at Microsoft.
[Applause]
If you were to choose a legacy, what would you choose? And you, Steve, do you look at Bill and think: “How happy is this guy to have such a rich company that he doesn’t have to personally come there every day, would I like to have such an opportunity”?
Kara swisherOK He is not going to answer anyway.
Walt mossbergBill?
Bill gatesWell, the most important work in which I managed to take part, whatever I did there at different times, is a personal computer. When I grew up, I was a teenager, then 20-30 years old, I even put off getting married to later times, before that I was absorbed in it. This is the thing of my life. And I’m very lucky that some of my skills and resources - but I will put the skills in the first place - which I developed in the process of this work, can now be turned to the benefit of people who do not have access to technology, including medicine. So to have two such activities in life is simply a blessing. But if you look into my head - it is all filled with programs, the magic of programs and faith in them, and that will never change.
Steve jobsSo, you asked, would I like to not go to work at Apple every day?
Jessie: No, I asked if you envy Bill that he has this second part of his life ...
Steve jobsOh no, I think the world ...
Kara swisheryou want to do something else.
Steve jobsI think the world has become a better place because Bill realized that his goal is not to be the richest guy in the cemetery, right? This is very good, and he does a lot of good with the money he earned.
I'm sure Bill looks like me here. I mean, we are both from the middle class, even from the lower middle class, and I have never really worried about money. And Apple was at first so successful that I was very happy because I didn’t have to worry about money then. Therefore, I could concentrate on work, and later on on my family.
And I look at us as two of the happiest people on the planet, because we found what we love to do, and we were in the right place at the right time, and we went to work every day, where we met with brilliant people for thirty years, and have been doing what we love to do.
And therefore it is difficult to be happier. Of course family, and all that. What else can I ask? Therefore, I do not think about my legacy. I just think about getting up every morning, and going forward next to wonderful people, and creating what other people will love as much as we do. And if we can do it, that's great.
Walt mossbergYes.
Rob: Thanks, Steve and Bill. Rob Kilton, I'm here with my business partner. We have an online media business with approximately one hundred employees. What is the most important advice you would give us so that we can try to create at least something comparable to the values ​​that you created in your wonderful companies.
Bill gatesI think that in fact, it is possible in both cases, correct me, if I'm wrong, we were not excited because we saw the opening economic prospects. Even when we at Microsoft announced in 1975, “A computer on every table and in every home,” we had no idea that we would become a big company. Every time I thought: “Oh God, can we double the size?” Can we manage so many people? Will it still be interesting? And each doubling went like this: well, this is finally the last time. So the economy has never been in the foreground. We wanted to be ahead in technology, and to do interesting things, and to attract different people with different skills who would like this work, and to ensure that these different people with different skills successfully work together - that was the main challenge for us. I made more mistakes in this area than anywhere else, but in the end some of these teams worked very well together. So this whole story is about people and passion. It is amazing that this business developed in this way.
Steve jobsYes. You must be very fond of what you do, this is absolutely true. The reason for this is that it is so hard to do that without such passion any reasonable person would give up this business. It is really very difficult. And you must endure this for a long period of time. Therefore, if you do not like this work, do not enjoy it, you will have to leave it. And in fact, this happened to the majority. If you look at those who have become “successful” in the eyes of society and those who have not, then very often those who have achieved success have loved their job, and therefore they were ready to endure when it was very difficult for them. And those who did not love left it because they are rational people. Who will endure all this if he does not really like it?
So there is a lot of hard work, constant unrest, and if you do not like this, you will fail. So first of all, you must love and have passion.
Secondly, you must be very skilled in finding talent, because no matter how capable you are, you need a team of outstanding people, and you need to evaluate people very quickly, make decisions regarding unfamiliar people, hire them and constantly hone your intuition, to build an organization that can, in the end, build itself, because you need wonderful people around you.
Walt mossbergLiz.
Liz: Liz Bayer. My question is dictated by historical curiosity. You have come to the same opportunity in completely different ways. When you think about how you do business, what would each of you want to learn from the other?
Bill gatesI would give a lot for having a taste of Steve. [Laughter]. It has a natural taste - and this is not a joke. I am talking about an intuitive taste in relation to both people and products. When we were choosing products for Mac, and it was about choosing software and how best to do these or other things, I considered all this from the point of view of an engineer, because my head is designed that way. And I saw that Steve makes decisions based on a flair for people and products, and it’s even hard for me to explain what I saw. He does things in a completely different way, it gives away magic.
Steve jobsWoz and I launched a company that made an integral product, so it was not very easy for us to enter into partnerships with others. In fact, Microsoft is one of the few companies with which we were able to collaborate. Bill and Microsoft did not make the whole product, so they really knew how to interact with others. If Apple had more of this skill inherent in genes, from the very beginning, it would be extremely useful. In fact, Apple only learned this a few decades later.
Walt mossbergYou are welcome.
Charley: Yes hi. Charlie Brenner from Fidelity Investments. In our area of ​​financial services, we very much focus on aging and retiring baby boomers (referring to the generation born after the Second World War, when there was a sharp increase in the birth rate - approx. Rem.).
Steve jobsWe are not so old yet.
Charlie : No, I'm not in that sense. The question is different from those that sounded earlier. Most of the innovations that come from computer and Internet companies are focused on youth. And I would like to know if you take into account the older generations in your companies.
Steve jobsOh, that is not so. I will give you an example. A few years ago, we started embedding video cameras in almost all of our computers. And the response was from people of all ages, but especially from the elderly, because they bought these computers for their children and grandchildren in order to be in contact with them. And they arrange videoconferences more often than young people. It is simply unbelievable that such things happen. And I could give you dozens of other examples of how older people living separately use these technologies to stay in touch with their families.
Bill gatesYes, I think this is a very good question, given the size of this market. And it’s great that there are so many companies that think about what can be done for older people. I think that the natural user interface is what is especially relevant in this case. We grew up with a keyboard, and it seems to us completely natural, but not for everyone. When I privately showed our Surface computer to a group of business presidents a couple of weeks ago, I was amazed at how impressed he was. When they saw him, understanding how they can use them to organize their photo album meant a lot to them, much more than to me.
Steve jobsI will give you another example. We have about two hundred retail stores. One of the things they do is educate users. We conduct about a million personal lessons - each lasts about an hour - per year. Million a year.
Walt mossbergYou started recently, right?
Steve jobsYes, we started about a year ago, and now we have reached a million training sessions per year. And many of these people are old people. And they come and spend an hour to learn how to use Office, and another hour to learn how to conduct video conferences. In fact, they can come as often as they want, to plan these classes for a year themselves, and they pay 99 dollars a year for this. And that's great.
Kara swisherLast question.
Walt mossbergPlease, the last question.
Unknown man: We all now share the fantastic experience of being in a matrix where we can all interact without having to be in one place. And by the way, thank you both for providing the best platforms for this communication. This is close to what we saw on the holographic deck in Star Trek.
What can you imagine in this direction better than the three-dimensional iChat, which we may see in the next 5-10 years?
Bill gatesI believe Steve is about to announce his teleportator.
Steve jobsI need a Star Trek. Give me a Star Trek.
Bill gatesI think that if you leave the teleportator aside, then most of the things you saw in science fiction will become a reality in the next decade. Virtual presence, virtual worlds that will reflect what is happening in the real world and what people are interested in. Movement in space as a way of interacting with a computer. I think that the investments that have been made in research will bring these benefits in the next ten years.
Walt mossbergSteve?
Steve jobsI dont know. This is what makes the daily coming to work so exciting, because now - we have already talked about this, exciting times have come in the industry, a lot of new things are appearing. So I don’t even risk thinking that wake-ups will happen in ten years.
Walt mossbergThank you very much.
Kara swisherThank you very much.
[Applause]
Kara swisherThank you so much. It was just great.
Walt mossbergJust wonderful. Thank you for being with us.

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