No panic! About what Google did with XMPP

    After the release of Google Hangout, the Internet has become popularly believed that Google closes XMPP. This is actually not the case. However, such an impression could have developed even from a previous article , which contained hellish nothing — a minimum of details, one link (irrelevant - apparently from OpenNet) to the Maemo forum (which, naturally, has nothing to do with Google) and therefore collected as many as 254 commentary of varying degrees of veracity.

    To figure out what really happened, it was necessary to draw a lot of different discussions in various sources, which took time. I live with the understanding that Google has been messing with something with XMPP for several months now and at least a couple of them with the understanding that Google is losing interest in XMPP, so I collected and structured all the information in one place.

    What did Google do with XMPP? Nothing.

    Under the cut, a complete collection of incidents and facts around Google Hangout, GTalk XMPP, s2s, user and expert assessments of the situation.


    Let's look at everything that happens with GTalk from the first stage, when the first reports appeared that Google closed S2S. S2S (Server-to-Server) or server-to-server communication, allows users of one jabber server to send messages to users of another jabber server. This is the most important condition for the Orthodox Church, along with the support of conferences, the availability of registration, and of course uptime.

    S2s issues went public in April. A discussion was formed in the LJ community of zhabberovodov , where people massively announced the closure of s2s by Google, and even on Habr then an article appeared about the upcoming Google Babel - . In the Jabber Yarush Club, they wrote on this subject a little more restrained.


    Let's turn to the sources. In fact, it all started back in February , when Google employees noticed spam activity from some servers and warned the community that they would limit the number of requests to add to the contact list from (all) other servers if requests continue to arrive:

    I work with Google's chat service, and we are seeing lots of spammy invites from users on various federated domains, including,, and Have you noted an elevated amount of sccount creation etc., and is there anything you can do about it in that case, otherwise we will have to institute very tight limits of invites per day being sent from federated domains.
    Per gustafsson

    You already know that this is exactly what happened in the end . Google has turned on subscription request blocking. As a true gentleman, Google also invited interested server owners to whitelist. Large servers mostly ignored the invitation. Owners of several smaller ones have been added to the white list.

    For two months, requests to add to the contact list were available only from GTalk users, and it was not possible to request a subscription from a GTalk user. In April, Google screwed up spam filters and unlocked it.

    A rather long blockage caused a certain amount of inconvenience and even myths.
    But if many wrote about blocking requests, for example, Opennet - then only the source, the STR Foundation, wrote about canceling the lock and restoring full s2s .


    Why did you decide that Google closed s2s?
    Because the announcement mentioned and was affected by federated domains.
    Did Google close s2s?
    No, I didn’t close it.
    Reading the source is helpful.
    And now, let's move on to the Hangouts situation.

    Google refuses XMPP?

    Google refuses XMPP?

    Google refuses XMPP?


    GOOGLE DON'T TURN OFF XMPP. Google has released a new CLIENT for instant communication. New messenger.
    Single Protocol. The protocol is closed.
    Messenger functionality: sending messages, audio, video calls.

    What do we have officially?

    The primary source of information about abandoning XMPP in Google Hangouts is Nikhyl Singhal, the head of communications services at Google, who, in an exclusive interview with TheVerge, stated the following:

    Talk, for example, was built to help enterprise users communicate better, Singhal says. “The notion of creating something that's social and that's always available wasn't the same charter as we set out with when we created Talk.” With Hangouts, Singhal says Google had to make the difficult decision to drop the very “open” XMPP standard that it helped pioneer.

    According to Nikhail, it turns out that Google Talk was created to help corporate users communicate, and when developing Hangouts at Google, they wanted to create something social and always accessible. This was at odds with Talk's ideology and Google made the difficult decision to abandon the very open XMPP standard that it helped develop.

    To such a statement immediately raises a lot of questions. Google’s participation in XMPP was far from as impressive as Singhal is trying to present in his statement. True, this is no longer a direct quote from Singhal, but a statement by TheVerge journalist, so an error in the wording cannot be ruled out. But not like that. What was the fact? GTalk was launched in August 2005. In December of that year, the libjingle library was published - an open implementation of the standardXEP-0166: Jingle . Since then, they have practically not been involved in either GTalk or XMPP standards. Out of relevance to standards, S2S was solemnly launched in 2006 - that's all. Correct me if you can, but Google didn’t do other work with XMPP standards.
    Google had interesting initiatives in the form of web chat in Gmail, transport in AOL (which at the same time allowed working with ICQ until ICQ was sold in DST, now known as Group). But this did not concern and did not help the protocol, the XMPP standard .

    Another possible explanation for abandoning XMPP is the notorious spammy invites. However, attempts to solve the problem through the creation / modification of standards and other-other things by Google were also not noticed. Moreover, in the previous 10 years no one has encountered such a problem on an industrial scale. And on the side of Google, too, did not notice. That is, approximately this method of solving the problem worked with a bang:


    I exaggerate, of course, but nonetheless. Spammers are quite successfully cut off at the server level by various monitoring, at the user level - by bots, captcha, etc. In especially serious cases, you can temporarily block s2s with the spammer server or close the registration.

    Thus, mentioning the minuses of XMPP from Google employees looks more like an attempt to justify the transition to Hangouts in the eyes of the public. But the attempt is weak. Of course, distribution across all Android devices is a much more significant factor and everyone understands this.

    Thanks to bobuk , we have a Google letter saying that bots on AppEngine will now not always work correctly - they will not be able to send messages to Hangout users. But this applies not only to AppEngine bots, but to all XMPP users.

    Hello from Google!
    You are the administrator for one or more Google App Engine applications that may be impacted by an upcoming new product release. Google will be releasing a new communications product called Hangouts which users may choose to use instead of Google Talk. The new service does not support XMPP.
    As a result XMPP bots such as the App Engine XMPP service will not be able to communicate with users who adopt the new service. There are two ways to keep your App Engine XMPP service working for end users:
    1) Your users may use any chat client that supports XMPP. XMPP clients will continue to work as usual with the App Engine XMPP service.
    2) End users will be asked to opt-into the new service when it goes live. Note that the go-live date may vary for Google Apps domains. End users and google app domain administrators may choose not to opt into the new system. If they do not opt ​​in they will remain on the current Talk client and there will be no change to their existing functionality, including being able to exchange messages with App Engine XMPP bots. Users who already opted in may toggle back to the old XMPP based chat clients in Gmail.
    Note that the changes discussed above have no impact on non-Google XMPP clients, which will continue to work as usual with the App Engine XMPP service. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please don't hesitate to email us at
    Sincerely, The Google App Engine Team

    Translated into Russian, this means:

    2) End users will be prompted to upgrade to the new [Hangouts] service when it is launched. Please note that the launch date for Hangouts for Google Apps domains may vary. End users and domain administrators of Google Apps will be able to opt out of the transition to the new system. If they refuse to switch to Hangouts, then Google Talk will continue to work for them and there will be no changes in the current functionality, including the ability to exchange messages with App Engine XMPP bots.
    Please note that all of the above changes do not affect third-party XMPP clients, which will continue to work with the App Engine XMPP service in normal mode.

    The same is true not only for App Engine, but for any XMPP server and not only for bots, but also for regular Google Talk accounts.
    For third-party XMPP clients, no changes in GTalk operation have occurred and will not happen in the near future. The official position regarding third-party clients is also quite clear and has not changed - use any Jabber-client. Google just stopped making the jabber client.
    2. Which other clients can connect to the Google Talk service?
    Any client that supports Jabber / XMPP can connect to the Google Talk service. Here's a list of popular clients .

    Questions and answers. Why does everything work for me?

    Can I somehow save GTalk?
    They say that you can put Hangouts from apk , then Talk will not work. I have Hangouts from this apk replaced Talk anyway. Removing Hangouts via Google Play allows you to roll back again to the GTalk preinstalled in Android. In new versions of Android, there will most likely be no GTalk and it will be more difficult to install it.
    Will you have to fetch from (GTalk) to another Jabber server?
    No, I don’t have to. Just make sure that neither you nor your friends are using Google clients anymore. For reliability, you can use the same client - then everything will definitely work.
    If you need a web client, use open source Jappix .
    And if you still bring it down, then where?,,
    to your domain -,,
    to your server - ejabberd, prosody, openfire
    Nota bene: Everything with Yandex is also not so rosy. The last days of Yandex, and as a result of hosted nearby, also have problems in work. But do not be paranoid in yourself, this has happened before. It should get better.
    However, Yandex jabber is not interesting. The only question is when you get tired and when you decide to close. Of course, it will not be very soon. But it is possible that still will be.

    How do Jabber fans communicate with Google Hangouts users?
    Only through the Hangouts client.
    If you are notified from Hangouts to a GTalk account enabled through a jabber client, you will receive a message, but your interlocutor will not receive a response. Therefore, if you do not receive a reply to a message sent from a jabber for a long time, you will have to either start Hangouts and check whether the message has arrived at all.
    Inconveniently. Try to use either only Hangouts, or only GTalk through jabber clients.
    So, what is next? From SMTP and POP3 do not think to refuse?
    Evgeny Vaganych, aren't you this? Google changed the client and went to reinvent the wheel. Well, OK. XMPP continues to live and develop. XMPP in Google continues to work. Why are these arrivals?
    I loved the mobile GTalk. What to use next?
    Under Android, perhaps try IM +. The simplicity of the interface is most similar to the original GTalk.
    For alternatives, consider Jasmine IM and the recently updated QIP, depending on the requirements for functionality and design, respectively.
    And also, by the way, Xabber is also an option.
    Under iOS - Talkonaut, IM +,
    Talk I have been the main IM for many years, what now, do I start using Skype ??
    Skype or Viber, if you fundamentally call. If not important, then use any normal jabber client.
    Third-party jabber clients are still working, but they will probably be banned with such a makar.
    I hope after this article it became clear that this is speculation.
    How can you prevent a jabber client from connecting to a jabber server? Why would Google spend resources on this if XMPP is not his main solution?
    The question can only be whether the entire jabber server will be closed. You can speculate that they will close, and I - that they will not close.
    Only the official announcement will resolve this dispute. Let's wait. I think I’ll have to wait another year at least. So for now - use it.

    Google "well done"

    In addition to all the inconveniences that obviously arise from Google’s actions, there is another side to the issue. After all, Google Talk was the coolest XMPP service! GTalk's S2S often did fall off with various servers. Sometimes there were connection problems. And all at least some major players in the voice argue that GTalk is undersized by XMPP.

    Since its inception ...
    • The server does not send or receive messages if there is no authorization (subscription). This is done in case of spam. Those. without mutual authorization, you will not be able to send and receive messages, and you will always be “Offline” with each other.
    • Only two-way authorization is supported (one-way authorization is equivalent to no authorization).
    • There may be problems connecting transports to your Google account. For example, a transport is “lost” with a new login or does not connect automatically.
    • Storage of bookmarks on the server is not supported.
    • Jabber conferences are not supported.
    • Private lists are not supported (list of seeing, invisible and ignored).
    • No user search for any data.
    • The server does not allow changing information about itself by means of the client.
    • The server does not allow changing the password for the account using client tools.
    • When a contact is deleted from the contact list, it is also deleted from the Google address book. Also, when a contact is deleted from the address book, it is deleted from the contact list.
    • The server, when connected, adds a random sequence of letters and numbers to the resource, because the official client does not support resources.

    Anton Ugnich ( ugnich ), founder of the jabber-microblogging service
    About the death of Google Talk:

    Well, [if soon] it is not necessary [to be] this pathetic semblance of XMPP to support, one less headache.

    Philip Culin ( schors ), DiPhost:
    Google is actually in some ways well done. I got upset and stopped here. Well, he did not pull out a free service, so he left and does not interfere with commercial services. The same XMPP is unclear what generally lives. For more than 10 years of its existence, no one really supports it. There are standards, but no sensible implementations have arisen. Look, Juick is something like this or that. So this is an opportunity for us, brothers and sisters, to make our own standard, for students to create clients and servers for it, for business - to sell it. Maybe our new standard will be a hundred times better than stillborn streaming XML.

    This proposal, of course, should be taken with a bit of humor, but the message is generally true: despite the fact that XMPP is a very rich and open protocol in theory, it should be supported by practice. The implementation of clients and servers must change, or the protocol as a whole in the future can be replaced by something more dynamically developing. After all, there will always be such a guy:


    I am very impressed with the position of the Xabber developers, which has crystallized over the past three months:

    GoogleReader News reminded us of the death of #GoogleWave. We are not sure that XMPP in Gtalk will survive. March 14th .
    We believe one day #GTalk will no longer be compatible with #XMPP. It will be the day we stop using it. Don't be evil, right? April 16th .
    We’d better run #kickstart to create a #xmpp client that implements all the XEP-based Hangouts stuff on May 22

    The problem is that the development of XMPP itself also needs to be worked hard to make it convenient and universal. This is quite complicated and none of the developers of end-user clients does this. And those who are engaged are far from the mass user. XMPP does not have a development vector right now. So, they are doing something slowly in their standards and nothing is being introduced that we could use in life. Interesting standards are accepted, but their implementation is not distributed in popular jabber clients, and therefore new functions cannot be used to communicate with an arbitrary interlocutor. There is a segmentation by customers.

    XMPP vs Hangouts

    Hangouts does not support XMPP federation. At all. Fundamentally. And not going to.
    He’s worse. And then, who knows what Hangouts have inside? Perhaps, at some point, Google will switch back to some standard protocol :) Never say never.

    You should distinguish between the Hangouts messenger, the GTalk messenger and the Google Talk jabber service. C2S in Hangouts is supported, S2S is not.
    Nothing happened with the GTalk Jabber Servers.
    But the GTalk jabber clients have been replaced with a client for the new protocol, and in this sense, Google is really abandoning XMPP. Not technically, but ideologically. Google strips the XMPP community of its support and begins to move toward a Skype-like model. Including focusing on sound and video.

    Cross Server Hangouts and XMPP

    Hangouts -> Gtalk
    Gtalk -> Hangouts <—> Gtalk
    Gtalk <—> Gtalk X Hangouts
    Hangouts X

    After the Google era

    1. It is unpleasant that now not all mail is jabber.
    Previously, any large mail in Runet, with the exception of, was a jabber: GMail, Yandex, QIP (, etc.) formed a big three of jabber players.
    2. One of the most convincing arguments in favor of XMPP has stopped working - “you are already using jabber”. Although it still works, "you already have a jabber."
    3. Maybe “don't be evil” has been changed to “don't be open”
    Peter Saint-Andre

    It started not yesterday and not today.

    It’s unpleasant for us.

    Do not die.

    Let's not panic.

    What to read

    To the question, what should we expect, but not with respect to the XMPP protocol, but with other Google services, the Nojitter article - Silent Google I / O Announcements is trying to answer .
    View original report on Hangouts on Google I / O -

    This article also relies on many private opinions on which you can observe the degree of relevance of the issue . Many sources are indicated in the article, others are here: / googles-new-hangouts-chat-and-messaging-app-to-incorporate-sms-soon!topic/chat/Yvaa70u-AOI - user stories posts / a3DTDC59wn4

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