Bill Gates and Steve Jobs: D5 Conference, Part 1

Original author: Amber Israelson, Ubiqus Reporting Inc.
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In May 2007, the traditional D5 conference in Carlsbad, California, 30 miles from San Diego brought together leaders from leading technology companies. On May 30, conference organizers Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg conducted a historical interview in which the top officials of Microsoft and Apple, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, jointly participated.
This text is a translation of the first part of the interview, the second part in the Unno translation read here , the final part in the Karlsson translation here .

The interview opened with the following video (YouTube, 7 minutes, 15 megabytes):Kara 1 : Thank you.
Walt 2 : Before we begin, there are several founders of our business in the hall - of course, two pioneers on this scene, but also several founders who did a lot for the industry, we saw them in the video just shown, some of which are in the audience today the hall. Mitch Kapor 3 , could you go up wherever you are? Yeah, there he is.
[Applause]
Walt: And Fred Gibbons 4 , who had not come to D before, but came today. Fred. Here is Fred in the hall.
[Applause]
Walt: And I don’t know if this person is here, but I would like to recall our colleague, Brent Schlender5 from Fortune, who, as far as I know, did the last joint interview with these guys. It was not on stage, but it was in Fortune magazine. Brent, I don’t know if you are in the audience. If you are in the hall, can you rise? Maybe he is on his way here.
[Applause]
Video of the first part of the interview (YouTube, 10 minutes, 22 megabytes):Kara: So, let's get started. The first thing I would like to ask is this: the press and blogs had a lot of controversial debate about whose contribution to the computer technology industry is greater. First answer you, Steve, with an opinion on Bill's contribution, and then vice versa.

Steve:Well, as you know, Bill built the first company in his industry. And I think he built the first software company before anyone in our industry realized what a software company was. And it was a huge contribution. Really huge. And the business model that they finally implemented was one that worked really well for the industry. I think the most important thing was that Bill was completely focused on software development before anyone even understood what software really was.
Kara: What is this important direction?
Steve:Yes exactly. You can still say a lot, but I think this is the most important. I also think that building a company is actually a difficult task, it requires the highest motivation in order to hire the best people, detain them in your company and make them work while doing the best job in their life. And Bill has been able to combine these qualities all these years.
Walt: Bill, what do you think of the contributions of Steve and Apple?
Bill: The first thing I want to clarify is that I don't pretend to be Steve Jobs 6. What Steve did was absolutely phenomenal, and if you go back in 1977, look at the Apple II computer, at the idea of ​​making the computer a subject of the consumer market - this step made Apple a unique company. Yes, there were other personalities with their products, but the idea that the computer industry could be an incredibly powerful phenomenon - Apple realized this and started working in this direction first.
Then one of the most interesting things we did was the Macintosh 7 and it was very risky. People may not remember that Apple actually put everything on the company. Lisa 8could not satisfy the consumer and some people said that the general approach was not so good, but the team built by Steve inside the company continued to achieve their goals, even demonstrating that they were ahead of their era for a while - I don’t know if you remember you are a Twiggy 9 hard drive and ...
Steve: 128 kilobytes
Kara: O, Twiggy hard drive, yes.
Bill:Steve once gave a speech, one of my favorites, where he literally said: "We created products that we ourselves want to use." So he really achieved this with his incredible taste and elegance, which made a huge impact on the industry. And his ability to always be around and feel where the next wave of progress should be has always been phenomenal. The industry has benefited greatly from its work. We are both happy to be part of this, but I would say that I value his contribution more than anyone else.
Steve: We are both incredibly happy to have such partners with whom we built our companies and then attracted great people. I mean, everything that was done by Microsoft and Apple was done by outstanding people, none of whom are sitting here today.
Kara: Not us.
Walt: Not by us. That is, in a sense, in your person you represent all these people.
Steve: In a way, yes. With an extremely significant contribution.
Walt: Bill mentioned Apple II in 1977, it was 30 years ago. Then there were a couple of other computers pursuing the idea of ​​accessibility for the average user. Looking back, indeed, the average user might not be able to use those computers by modern standards, but the advent of Apple II definitely increased the number of those who could work with computers.
I will now turn to 1978 Apple advertising. The magazine page shows you how ancient the technology was. It said: thousands of people discovered the Apple computer. And it was also said: you do not want to buy one of those computers in which you need to insert a cartridge. I think it was about Atari or something similar.
Steve: Oh no.
Walt: You want a computer with which you can write your own programs. And, obviously, people still think so.
Steve: Yes, at that time we had some weird ad campaigns. There was one where the action took place in the kitchen with the participation of a woman, apparently married. She typed recipes on a computer, and her husband looked approvingly from behind. They shot such nonsense, yes.
Walt:How did it work for you?
Steve: I don't think this worked well.
Walt: I know that Microsoft was founded in 1977. As far as I know, Apple was created a year earlier, in 1976.
Steve: 1976.
Walt: Microsoft in ...
Bill: 1974, when we started writing BASIC. We started delivering BASIC in 1975.
Walt: Some people are here, but I don’t think most people know that there was some Microsoft-made software in that same Apple II computer. Want to talk about what happened then, how did it happen?
Bill: Yes. Then there were Altair 10and several other companies - about 24, making various machines, but in 1977 the group was engaged in PET 11 , TRS-80 12 ...
Walt: Commodore?
Bill: Yes. Commodore PET, TRS-80 and Apple II. Original Apple II BASIC, Integer BASIC - we had nothing to do with it. But then floating point operations appeared - I basically worked with Stephen Wozniak on this.
Steve:Let me tell you. My partner with whom we began to work, his name was Steve Wozniak. Outstanding, wonderful guy. He wrote BASIC, which became the best BASIC computer language on the planet. This language allowed to do such things that not a single language allowed to do. You did not need to run it to find all the error messages. He found the errors himself while you were typing and so on. It was perfect from any point of view, except for one point - it worked only with fixed-point operations. Didn't work with floating point. So we got a lot of feedback from people who want that BASIC to work with floating point. And, therefore, we begged Woz, please, please, resolve this issue.
Walt: Who are we? How many people worked at Apple then?
Steve:Actually me. We begged Woz to solve the floating point problem, and he never solved it. He then wrote by hand on paper. He did not have assembler or anything with which he could write and verify the code. It was all written on paper and he would like to make it all work in the car. But he never realized floating point operations.
Kara: Why?
Steve: For me, this remains one of the secrets in life. I don’t know, but he didn’t. Well, then, as you know, Microsoft made a very popular, really good BASIC with support for floating point operations, so in the end we turned to them and said, “Help.”
Walt: And how much the help cost, I think you mentioned it earlier ...
Bill:Oh, it was worth $ 31,000.
Walt: The amount Apple paid you for ...
Bill: For BASIC with floating point support. And I flew to Apple, spent two days there, getting a cassette. Cassette tapes were then the main way to store information, remember? And you know, we had fun then. I think that most of all we had fun later when we worked together.
Walt: How did you have fun? Tell a story about this very fun that came later.
Kara: Or maybe about what happened next, but it wasn't the biggest fun.
Walt: Let them tell you.
Kara: Just teasing.
Bill:Steve could perhaps have started this story better. The team assembled to create the Macintosh was extremely dedicated. And there was a similar team on our side, which was fully focused on its activities. Jeff Harbers 13 , a large number of incredible people. And we really relied on our future, hoping that the Macintosh would be successful and then, hopefully, the graphical interface as a whole would be successful, but first and foremost, the thing that would spread widely was the Macintosh.
So we worked together. Plans were blurred. The quality was doubtful. Price. When Steve first appeared, the cost of the computer was expected to be much less than what it turned out to be in the end, but it was still great.
Kara:So you worked in two places?
Bill: Well, yes, we worked in Seattle 14 and flew back and forth.
Walt: But Microsoft, as far as I remember, was not Microsoft one of those companies that were allowed to have a prototype Mac then?
Steve: Yes. What is most interesting, it’s hard today to recall that Microsoft was not yet involved in the software business. They put so much on the Mac because it was this path that allowed them to get into the software business. On the PC platform, then Lotus dominated the software industry.
Bill: It is. We had then Multiplan 15, which became a hit on Apple II, then Mitch Kapor did an incredible job, counting on the future popularity of the IBM PC and Lotus 1-2-3 appeared and, as you know, began to refuel in this business. So the question was posed as follows: what will be the next paradigm shift when it will be possible to enter the business? We had Word, but WordPerfect was universally recognized as the strongest text editing software with dBase 16 databases .
Walt: And Word was a DOS-powered product.
Bill: All the products I have listed then worked only in DOS.
Walt: Yes.
Bill: Because Windows wasn’t even planned at that time.
Walt: Yes.
Bill:In the late 80s, we began to get closer to Windows. That is, in the end, we bet that the paradigm will change towards using the graphical interface and, in particular, the Macintosh will make it possible to use the GUI with 128 kilobytes of memory, 22 kilobytes of which were used on the display buffer, 14 kilobytes on the operating system. So it was ...
Walt: 14 kilobytes?
Bill: Yes.
Walt: The first Mac OC took up 14 kilobytes?
Bill: 14 kilobytes - the amount of memory that we had to use to run our software. When the shell came out, it used all 128K.
Steve: The OS used more than 14 kilobytes. About 20.
Walt: I see.
Steve:We are now supplying all these computers with gigabytes of RAM and no one will even remember about 128 kilobytes.
Walt: I remember these times. I remember, then I had to pay a lot of money for a computer with 128 kilobytes. So the two companies worked side by side on the Mac project, because you might not be the only ones, but the leading creators of the software for it, right?
Steve: Apple did the Mac on its own, but we had Bill and his team involved in writing these applications. We made several applications on our own. We did MacPaint, MacDraw, and some more software, but Bill and his team did really important work.
Kara:Today, speaking of moving forward after the moment you went their separate ways and your company became more and more strong, what do you think would happen to Apple after a kind of misfortune that happened when Steve left the company?
Bill: Well, for Apple, they hung in the balance. We continued to make software for the Macintosh. Excel, which Steve and I presented together in New York, was a fun event of its kind that went great. But then, as you know, Apple simply didn’t adapt its results well to the needs of users, in contrast to a higher-level platform.
Walt: That is, Windows?
Bill: DOS and Windows.
Walt:OK This particularly underscored the rise of Windows in the early 90s.
Bill: By 1995, Windows had become popular. The biggest debate did not arise around the confrontation between Mac and Windows. The biggest debate was around using alphanumeric or graphical interfaces. And when the 386 platform came out and we got more memory, the speed began to meet the needs, and some development tools arrived in time, the changes made it obvious to everyone that the future is with a graphical interface.
Walt: But Apple was unable to improve its products?
Bill:After the release of the 512K Mac, the production line simply could not spin up quickly; there was no Steve there, as required. And we were negotiating and going to invest, having received in return some obligations from Gil Amilio 17 . No seriously.
Kara: Don't mention it.
Bill: Do not understand?
Kara: Just by saying Gil Amilio you can piss off Steve.
Bill: I called Steve this weekend and we talked about all this. Soon, Steve called me and said: “Don't worry about all these talks with Gil Amilio. Now you can talk to me right now. ” 18 And I said, “Wow.”
Steve:Gil was a good guy, he said, “Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom into which water flows, and my job is to keep this ship moving in the right direction.”
Video of the second part of the interview (YouTube, 10 minutes, 15 megabytes):Walt: Meanwhile, I would like to return to what we learned in 1997 on Macworld 19 - while Windows was rolling out its main weapon. I mean - no early version of Windows had all the features of Windows 95, and the graphical interface that the Mac and Windows 95 had was really a giant, huge leap.
Bill: Yes. Since the days of Windows 95, the graphical interface has become the standard and the industry has realized: wow, that’s how applications should be. And it was surprising that the software released in 1993, 1994 was not accepted as a standard, but 1995 came and the debate ended. This was a manifestation of common sense. And it was a combination of hardware and software, mature enough so that people could feel the benefits and use them effectively.
Walt: I would not want to go into the details of the story of how you returned, but ...
Steve: Thank you.
Walt: But you in this video that we all saw said you decided that this competition with Microsoft would be destructive. But, obviously, Apple was not in big trouble and I admit that you made some tactical or strategic reason to do this, in addition, you still wanted to seem like a cool guy, right?
Steve: You know, Apple had very big problems. And it was very clear that if it was a “not ours, not yours” game, where if Apple won, Microsoft would have to lose, only then would Apple lose. But many still continue to think about it.
Kara:From your point of view, why so?
Steve: The fact is that many people think that Apple attracts people because we invented a lot, while Microsoft was successful and Apple was not. Envy and everything like that arose on this basis. Just for this there were many reasons, but in general, this is nonsense.
But in the end it turned out that there were too many people in the Apple system imagining that if Apple won, Microsoft would lose. And it was clear that you should stop playing these games, because Apple was not going to beat Microsoft at all. Apple had to remember what Apple was, because people preferred to forget what Apple was.
So for me it was important enough to destroy this prevailing opinion. And it was also important because Microsoft was the largest software developer for the Mac, apart from Apple. So it was just crazy - what was happening then. Apple was extremely weak, so I called Bill and we tried to fix the situation.
Bill: And since then, Microsoft has a team whose work is aimed at creating applications for Mac. The attitude to this division has always been like something unique, created specifically for relations with Apple. And this circuit works fine. In fact, something new happens every couple of years that we can do on the Mac and this is a huge business for us.
Steve:And the relationship between the Mac development team and Microsoft is actually a great relationship. Some of our best relationships between developers.
Kara: Do you relate to each other as competitors today? Today, when the industry has evolved so much and we are talking about the Internet industry and other things, when other companies are moving so briskly forward, how do you see yourself in this picture?
Walt: Because, as I understand it, you are still competitors in a way, right?
Kara: We're all watching ads, right?
Walt: And from time to time you are just annoyed with each other, right?
Kara: Although you know what? I have to admit, I like the guy from the ad portraying the PC.
Walt:Yes, he's great.
Kara: Yes, I love him. I want to hatch the young one.
Steve: The purpose of this advertisement is not what the advertisement seems to be in order to maintain good relations between guys. Thanks. The PC guy is really great. He has a huge heart.
Bill: His mother adores her son.
Steve: His mom adores her son.
Kara: I seriously declare to you, I love the guy portraying the PC much more.
Steve: Wow.
Kara: That's right. I do not know why. He inspires love with his appearance. The second guy is just a donkey.
Steve: Actually, the PC guy does all the work in that ad.
Walt: Yes.
Steve:There is something to think about ...
Kara: So how do you see yourself today?
Walt: Let me just ask you a question, Bill. Obviously, Microsoft is bigger than Apple, you have more markets, more products than Apple. When you, Bill, led the company or when Steve Ballmer runs the company, do you think the obvious things about Google? You think, well, for example, about Linux at the enterprise level, you think about Sony in the gaming industry. How often is Apple on the Microsoft Business Sensitivity Radar screen?
Bill:They are on the screen of this radar as an opportunity. In some cases, such as Zune, people think that Apple is a competitor. People like the fact that Apple has created a huge market that they want to try and offer something on it as well and they will try to make a contribution.
Steve: And we love them, because they are all customers.
Walt: I have to tell you, J. Allard gave me 20 , I seriously, because of the design of the processor, the platform that they used to develop most of the software for the Xbox 360 was Maki. And he claimed that at some point they placed a maximum order for Macs, larger than anyone else before them, that is, the most valuable Mac customers were Microsoft.
Bill:I do not know if this was the largest order, but yes, we had the same processors that were in the Macs. The irony is that Apple stopped using those processors, and the Xbox 360 adopted them. But for the better, in both cases. Because we did not deal with portable applications and this was one of the cases when you do not have clear plans for using processors. But yes, it expresses our pragmatism, we try and do things this way. So it was a development system so that first buyers get the software ready for the release of the Xbox 360.
Steve: And we never ran an advertisement about it.
Walt: I see. Restraint of the fittest. This is a great reason for restraint.
Steve: There were hundreds of such cases.
Bill:Steve is well known for his restraint.
Kara: How do you look at Microsoft from the perspective of Apple? I mean, you are competitors in the computer industry and ...
Walt: We mean, although you say that you are not competitors, as you said, “the era of destructive something ended there in 1997”, but you plan, you consciously follow behind what they do with Windows, you study Vista, I think, and are pretty close ...
Steve:You know what’s really interesting - and we talked about this earlier today - if you look at the reasons for the existence of the iPod and Apple’s place in this market, it all happened because there are really big Japanese consumer electronics companies that have their own market portable music devices invented by them and produced by them. But they do not know how to produce suitable software, they cannot invent and make convenient software. Because the iPod is really just software. Software on iPod, software on PC or Mac, software on the Internet cloud, for the iTunes store. And this is not a wonderful box, it is primarily software. If you look at what a Mac is, it's OS X, right? This is not a great box, but it is OS X. And if you look at what it will be, I hope
So Apple’s biggest secret, of course - not as big a secret as it seems - is that Apple sees itself primarily as a software company, among the few that remain. Microsoft is also a software company. And, as you know, we look at what they are doing and we think of it as something really big, and we think that this is a bit of competition, but by and large not. We are not convinced that Mac is going to take away more than 80% of the PC market. You know, we are really happy when the share of our market increases by even a little bit, we like it, we really work hard on it, but the fundamental foundation of Apple is that it is primarily a software company, of which there are not many, Microsoft is one of them.
Walt:You can be essentially a software company, but you, as you know, at least for your customers and most journalists, are a company that pays a lot of attention to integrating software and hardware. Microsoft recently took several steps towards this, obviously, not in key areas, but with the Xbox and Zune and, as you know, Surface devices, we came across another example today. These are not markets where Microsoft's presence is limited to Windows or Office, but they are reminiscent of your recent initiatives. The companies approach to such a combination is a little or ...
Steve: Alan Kay said very well in the late 70s. He said, “People who love software want to create their own hardware.”
Walt: Bill loves software.
Steve: Oh, I just can't resist him.
Bill: The question is, are we getting a positive result by entering markets with innovation and diversity at the same time? The bad news is that in the early stages you really want to get both together, so you do prototyping and stuff, all together.
Take the phone market as an example. Windows in one way or another is present on approximately 140 different hardware modifications. We think that this is beneficial to us, so even if we made some of the models ourselves, it would give us the result that we already get during this partnership.
Also take the robot market, which is in its infancy today. We have more than 140 robots running on Microsoft software. Creativity, the creation of toys, safety devices, medical devices - we love innovation and the ecosystem that is created around - who knows when it will be created - but we are patient and confident that we will receive huge profits from a software platform for robotics applications.
So there are a few things, such as PCs, phones, and robots where Microsoft chooses variety.
As for Apple - everything is great with them. For them, what they do works just fine. There are several markets like the Xbox 360, Zune, and this year we have two new ones, Surface and RoundTable, essentially the subject of a negotiation room. In these markets, the market we are through subcontractors, profit and loss is still in question, all this applies to hardware, design, as fully as Microsoft products.
Walt: RoundTable is what you announced here?
Bill: We show prototypes of this. This is such a thing when you have 360 ​​degrees ...
Walt: Yes. Cisco has developments in this market and HP too, right?
Bill: HP has a very tech device, a bit like this, but be that as it may.
Video of the third part of the interview (YouTube, 10 minutes, 22 megabytes):Walt: Well, yes. (Turning to Jobs) Have you ever regretted - was there something you wanted to do differently? Or maybe you felt that way after you left Apple? There was something, something that you thought you had to do differently, and then you could get a much larger market share for the Macs?
Steve:Before I answer, let me comment on Bill’s response to consumer and industry markets as completely different platforms. In the consumer market, I suppose, someone else can create a fairly strong game, of course, not as it was with Windows on PC. It is hard to see other examples of how software and hardware work fragmentedly and very well. This can happen in the handset market over time. May be. But this is not clear. This is not clear. You can come across many examples of successful hardware and software collaboration.
So I think one of the reasons that we come to work every day is the fact that nobody still knows the answers to some of these questions. And we will look for these answers in the coming years and maybe both approaches will work well, or maybe not.
Walt: Yes.
Bill: Yes. This is a great time to try both approaches. In some product categories - take music players - offering the same design works better. In the personal computer market, a variety of designs and shapes at this stage of development plays a large role.
Walt: Does it play a big role? It plays a huge role.
Bill: Not with such strong differences as in the case of music players.
Walt:Whether there were moments when you felt - I had to do it or Apple had to do it and then we could ...
Kara: You settled on this idea of ​​integrating hardware and software, on the fact that now it works perfectly.
Steve: A lot of things happened, which I thought I could do better when I led Apple for the first time. A lot of things happened after I left Apple, which I thought was not true, but now it doesn’t matter. It really doesn't matter and you have to go through such things and we are what we are. Based on this, we tend to look forward.
You know, the one thing I did when I returned to Apple 10 years ago was to ship all the papers, all the old cars to the Stanford Museum, sort of clean up the cobwebs. I said: stop looking back. We are doing what will happen tomorrow. Because you can’t look back and say yes, but if I hadn’t been fired, if I had been there, if only if I had this. Irrelevant. So let's better invent tomorrow than regret what happened yesterday.
Kara:We will talk more about tomorrow, let's talk a little about today, how you evaluate the various players in the market and how you look at the development of the industry now. What is especially unexpected today for both of you, because you are old-timers of the IT industry, you are very active and your companies are still key companies? There are a large, very large number of companies that have become very strong. What do you feel today in your industry, what is happening, especially in the Internet field?
Steve:I think today the IT industry is booming as ever. I think there are a lot of young people creating great companies who want to create companies that not only want to start something and quickly sell it to the big guys, but those who really want to create companies. And I think there are already some really awesome companies built this way. It’s a kind of next-generation business that some of us are already picking up and find partners in the face of these young guys, but besides this there are still many unoccupied niches today ...
(Continue for the interview in the Unno translation here , the final part in the Karlsson translation here )

1Kara Swisher is a columnist, technology columnist for the Wall Street Journal, and a well-known author and commentator on the Internet ( Wikipedia ); 2 Walter S. Mossberg - (born 1947) a leading technology columnist at the Wall Street Journal ( Wikipedia ); 3 Mitchell David Kapor - (born 1950) the founder of Lotus Development Corporation and the creator of Lotus 1-2-3, an application that served as the reason for the widespread availability of a personal computer in the business world in the 80s ( Wikipedia ); 4 Fred M. Gibbons - (born 1949) Between 1975-1981 Production and Marketing Manager at HP, Microcomputer Manufacturing Division ( CV ); 5Brent Schlender - Fortune magazine editor, Silicon Valley technology and news columnist ( summary ); 6 Gates hints that he is not the author of the popular blog “The Secret Diary of Steve Jobs”. Someone runs this blog on behalf of Steve Jobs, the subtitle of the blog reads: “Dude, I invented this damned iPod. Have you heard anything about him? ” (thanks for the tip from Jial , read fakesteve.blogspot.com ); 7 Mac (fully Macintosh) is the name of a series of personal computers designed, developed, and manufactured by Apple Inc. ( Wikipedia ); 8 Apple Lisa is a revolutionary personal computer designed by Apple Computer in the early 1980s (Wikipedia ); 9 The Twiggy disk - during the development of Apple Lisa, Apple produced the Twiggy recording format, officially known as FileWare ( Wikipedia ); 10 Altair 8800 - one of the first computers designed in 1975 and working with Intel 8080 CPUs ( Wikipedia );
11 Commodore PET - (PET - Personal Electronic Transactor) a home / personal computer manufactured by Commodore in the late 70s ( Wikipedia );
12 TRS-80 - a desktop personal microcomputer manufactured by Tandy Corporation, sold in Tandy stores, in the late 1970s and early 1980s ( Wikipedia ); thirteenJeffrey M. Harbers - Microsoft Executive Director 1981-1990, one of the developers of Microsoft Office. He died in a plane crash in June 24, 2006 ( life path ); 14 Apparently, here we are talking about working for Seattle Computer Products. Seattle Computer Products (SCP) - one of the first manufacturers of computer systems based on the Intel 8086 platform ( wikipedia ); 15 Multiplan - one of the first table editing programs, the successor of VisiCalc, developed by Microsoft ( Wikipedia ); 16 Base was the first widely used database management system published by Ashton-Tate for the CP / M operating system .and later used on Apple II, Apple Macintosh, UNIX, VMS, and IBM PC under DOS, making it one of the best-selling software for many years. ( Wikipedia ); 17 Gilbert F. Amelio - (born 1943) in 1994-1997 was executive director of Apple Computer ( Wikipedia ;) 18 We are talking about the disastrous situation of Apple in 1997 and the return of Jobs to the company ( more ); 19 At the later famous Macworld Conference in Boston in 1997, Steve Jobs announced a partnership with Microsoft ( Wikipedia , YouTube ); 20J. Allard (born 1969) Vice President, Chief XNA Architect at Microsoft ( Wikipedia ).
This text is a translation of the Bill Gates and Steve Jobs at D5 interview given during the D5 conference on May 31, 2007. Published May 31, 2007 by Amber Israelson, Ubiqus Reporting Inc.
Separate illustrations and videos were taken from the following sources:
d5.allthingsd.com/20070531/d5-gates-jobs-transcript
When reprinting a translation, please refer to the original and the present text, www.habrahabr.ru/blog/translations/16955.html .
The author of the translation will be grateful for comments, comments, corrections of possible inaccuracies and participation in the adjustment of the translation of the interview.

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